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  1. #1
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    Default Coming up with solutions between Idealists and Rationals

    Of course, no one type is better than the other, but I've noticed a prevalent style of thinking between Idealists (NFs) and Rationals (NTs).

    When asked to come up with a solution- most often, the NTs will come up with one- while NFs are better at point out the problem.

    For example, I'm part of a book club and oftentimes, we'll engage in some philosophical discussions. When asked what they would like to do/accomplish- NFs usually answer in very general, terms- (eg, feed the hungry, help the poor) while NTs are more specific about exactly what they want to do (eg, create a law to ban mortgage companies from taking advantage of homeowners).

    Also, NFs tend to idealize romantic relationships and perpetually looking for a soulmate that may or may not exist while NTs tend to want to be involved in relationships in which they can overcome obstacles by working together.

    What has been your overall experience with either type?

  2. #2
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    NTs analyze, while NFs synthesize.

    I love viewing pieces in regards to the role they play in whichever system they belong.

    I'm big into correlations, analogies, metaphors, systems and whole-picture perspectives.

    microcosms and macrocosms

    duality

    paradox

    zero and infinity

    oneness

    nothingness

    I can be quite general in my views of the world at large, but who isn't?

    I believe the F heightens the intuitive function.

    More often than not, I intuit/"feel" the answer/existence/meaning behind certain complex concepts and constructs, long before I understand why I know them.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #3
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Moved from The Bonfire to MBTI, Enneagram, and other personality matrices

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Of course, no one type is better than the other, but I've noticed a prevalent style of thinking between Idealists (NFs) and Rationals (NTs).

    When asked to come up with a solution- most often, the NTs will come up with one- while NFs are better at point out the problem.

    For example, I'm part of a book club and oftentimes, we'll engage in some philosophical discussions. When asked what they would like to do/accomplish- NFs usually answer in very general, terms- (eg, feed the hungry, help the poor) while NTs are more specific about exactly what they want to do (eg, create a law to ban mortgage companies from taking advantage of homeowners).

    Also, NFs tend to idealize romantic relationships and perpetually looking for a soulmate that may or may not exist while NTs tend to want to be involved in relationships in which they can overcome obstacles by working together.

    What has been your overall experience with either type?
    I'm a lot more idealistic than the NTs you describe, but perhaps that's because of the high F factor I have.

    I'm a lot better at tweaking an existing idea than coming up with an idea from scratch. My ISTP husband says the same is true for him.

  5. #5
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    When asked to come up with a solution- most often, the NTs will come up with one- while NFs are better at point out the problem.

    What has been your overall experience with either type?
    What do you expect out of an NF? Fe and Fi aren't exactly neat and precise functions. I think it's just a case of ideas being difficult to articulate. That is it takes time for me to formulate exactly what I wanted to say. I get rambly in order to solidify the solution in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    NTs analyze, while NFs synthesize.
    *agrees full-heartedly to statement above*

  6. #6
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    The NFs I know are more holistic and sort of humanize everything. It's hard to describe, but they're good at feeling out the ebb and flow of the fluid between the actors on their universal set; they feel out the chords that bind people (or things) together. It's very inspiring.

    Plus they have an adorable way of scrunching their nose up when they think really hard.

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    When asked to come up with a solution- most often, the NTs will come up with one- while NFs are better at point out the problem.
    What I usually do is point out the problems first, and then try to come up with solutions to them. I think it seems futile to suggest solutions when you haven't even determined the nature of the problems yet. I'm guessing that would indicate a mixed style.
    For example, I'm part of a book club and oftentimes, we'll engage in some philosophical discussions. When asked what they would like to do/accomplish- NFs usually answer in very general, terms- (eg, feed the hungry, help the poor) while NTs are more specific about exactly what they want to do (eg, create a law to ban mortgage companies from taking advantage of homeowners).
    Again, my style would seem to be a mix. I would probably start with something like "reduce the national debt." If I were asked how I thought that should happen, I would suggest that the government should cut programs and raise taxes, but that they're unwilling to do so because most of their voters don't think long-term, and want them to do the opposite. I might suggest that people need to somehow be conditioned to look at the long term, common good rather than the short term, individual good. In other words, I might start with something vague, but I could elaborate if asked.
    Also, NFs tend to idealize romantic relationships and perpetually looking for a soulmate that may or may not exist while NTs tend to want to be involved in relationships in which they can overcome obstacles by working together.
    My style doesn't seem much like either here. I would say that I'm not particularly interested in romantic relationships, but that I enjoy having people around that I feel comfortable talking to, and whom I feel understand me.

    Anyway, I would venture to guess that the list you've come up with is most applicable to xNFP's, as it seems to accord with what I know of them.

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Of course, no one type is better than the other, but I've noticed a prevalent style of thinking between Idealists (NFs) and Rationals (NTs).

    When asked to come up with a solution- most often, the NTs will come up with one- while NFs are better at point out the problem.

    For example, I'm part of a book club and oftentimes, we'll engage in some philosophical discussions. When asked what they would like to do/accomplish- NFs usually answer in very general, terms- (eg, feed the hungry, help the poor) while NTs are more specific about exactly what they want to do (eg, create a law to ban mortgage companies from taking advantage of homeowners).

    Also, NFs tend to idealize romantic relationships and perpetually looking for a soulmate that may or may not exist while NTs tend to want to be involved in relationships in which they can overcome obstacles by working together.

    What has been your overall experience with either type?
    Seems a bit oversimplified. I'd have to have a framework for narrowing down what type of ill we are hoping to combat then study it from various angles in order to get maximum benefit for our efforts and to minimize unintended consequences. I don't keep optimal plans for solving specific problems on file in my brain for a rainy day.

    My NT spouse usually has a better idea about the specific issues that are of interest to him. I'm not sure he has mentally drafted specific bills. I'll have to ask him sometime.

    My spouse is really not interested in overcoming obstacles and working together so much as having a soft landing to come home to and someone to talk about issues and dream with. We can do the working together thing and do it well, but that is a thing of necessity. Obstacles suck. We'd rather play.

    I don't know if I idealize romantic relationships. I've been in one for sixteen years, so the shiny has been scuffed more than once and I'm still here and happy. Either I don't over-idealize them or I am capable of idealizing them in the face of harsh reality. My inclination is to make a soulmate of anyone I'm close to, to cut through all the surface crap and get down to the nitty-gritty of who we are. My husband is a soulmate and certainly my closest one, but he isn't some kind of human holy grail.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My spouse is really not interested in overcoming obstacles and working together so much as having a soft landing to come home to and someone to talk about issues and dream with. We can do the working together thing and do it well, but that is a thing of necessity. Obstacles suck. We'd rather play.
    Of course, it's fun to play when all's well- but I tend to think sometimes that Idealists will attempt to "change" people to conform to their particular ideals of what a relationship "should" be, and not what it is.

    For example, there is one couple I know- ENFP female with INTP male- and she is forever attempting to make him into some kind of emotional wuss who is a surrogate of her therapist. In her point of view- she idealizes a partner as someone who gives her emotional support and advice, financially supports her, and basically acts like an indentured servant, putting his needs aside in order to satisfy her every need. She will even go to extremes to make all the decisions for him, and even screens all his phone calls and emails.

    I admit- this is an extreme example- but the INTP male is actually very affable, popular and due to his attractiveness a lot of women are interested in him; however, he only listens when he knows he's being heard, and because she is a "confrontational" type who will argue just so someone can do what she wants- he tunes her out.

    I had a very similar experience with her so can
    attest to her unlikability.

    I'm not sure if this is a trait particular to ENFPs- or NFs- but most other NFs I've encountered seem fairly pleasant and engage in active-listening.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Of course, it's fun to play when all's well- but I tend to think sometimes that Idealists will attempt to "change" people to conform to their particular ideals of what a relationship "should" be, and not what it is.

    For example, there is one couple I know- ENFP female with INTP male- and she is forever attempting to make him into some kind of emotional wuss who is a surrogate of her therapist. In her point of view- she idealizes a partner as someone who gives her emotional support and advice, financially supports her, and basically acts like an indentured servant, putting his needs aside in order to satisfy her every need. She will even go to extremes to make all the decisions for him, and even screens all his phone calls and emails.

    I admit- this is an extreme example- but the INTP male is actually very affable, popular and due to his attractiveness a lot of women are interested in him; however, he only listens when he knows he's being heard, and because she is a "confrontational" type who will argue just so someone can do what she wants- he tunes her out.

    I had a very similar experience with her so can
    attest to her unlikability.

    I'm not sure if this is a trait particular to ENFPs- or NFs- but most other NFs I've encountered seem fairly pleasant and engage in active-listening.
    All I can say is,
    "It takes two to tango."

    He doesn't have to put up with it.
    He can stand up for himself.

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