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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    All I can say is,
    "It takes two to tango."

    He doesn't have to put up with it.
    He can stand up for himself.
    I'm sure he can! Why he doesn't seems illogical to me however, but perhaps the thought of being alone motivates one to continually stay in a verbally abusive dead end relationship.

  2. #12
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Of course, it's fun to play when all's well- but I tend to think sometimes that Idealists will attempt to "change" people to conform to their particular ideals of what a relationship "should" be, and not what it is.

    For example, there is one couple I know- ENFP female with INTP male- and she is forever attempting to make him into some kind of emotional wuss who is a surrogate of her therapist. In her point of view- she idealizes a partner as someone who gives her emotional support and advice, financially supports her, and basically acts like an indentured servant, putting his needs aside in order to satisfy her every need. She will even go to extremes to make all the decisions for him, and even screens all his phone calls and emails.
    That doesn't sound like an ENFP.

    I admit- this is an extreme example- but the INTP male is actually very affable, popular and due to his attractiveness a lot of women are interested in him; however, he only listens when he knows he's being heard, and because she is a "confrontational" type who will argue just so someone can do what she wants- he tunes her out.

    I had a very similar experience with her so can
    attest to her unlikability.
    That REALLY doesn't sound like an ENFP.
    I'm not sure if this is a trait particular to ENFPs- or NFs- but most other NFs I've encountered seem fairly pleasant and engage in active-listening.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #13
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Of course, it's fun to play when all's well- but I tend to think sometimes that Idealists will attempt to "change" people to conform to their particular ideals of what a relationship "should" be, and not what it is.

    For example, there is one couple I know- ENFP female with INTP male- and she is forever attempting to make him into some kind of emotional wuss who is a surrogate of her therapist. In her point of view- she idealizes a partner as someone who gives her emotional support and advice, financially supports her, and basically acts like an indentured servant, putting his needs aside in order to satisfy her every need. She will even go to extremes to make all the decisions for him, and even screens all his phone calls and emails.

    I admit- this is an extreme example- but the INTP male is actually very affable, popular and due to his attractiveness a lot of women are interested in him; however, he only listens when he knows he's being heard, and because she is a "confrontational" type who will argue just so someone can do what she wants- he tunes her out.

    I had a very similar experience with her so can
    attest to her unlikability.

    I'm not sure if this is a trait particular to ENFPs- or NFs- but most other NFs I've encountered seem fairly pleasant and engage in active-listening.
    Sometimes people with very passive partners get a bad rap for being domineering when really they are just doing what needs to be done because their partner will not do it. Both partners can come to resent the situation, but find it difficult to correct the pattern. INTPs are capable of being extremely passive, so I would think twice before assigning all the blame on this guy's wife.

    Also, they may not really even be particularly dissatisfied. It can be very difficult to gage a couple's dynamic from the outside. My mother, for instance, thought for years that my husband was dominating me. While his mother thought I was controlling my husband (possibly through freaky sex, but she's not sure).

    The truth: who knows? It's complicated. He works his rear off while I stay home. I handle all the money. I answer all the phone calls. He has no social life and goes nowhere except for work without me. He calls himself my 'whipped cracker.' He only half listens to me a fair minority of the time.

    Am I dominating him? You try to get the man to answer the phone, lol. I've tried to get him to help manage the money. He has no interest in managing any money outside of the 401K. He tells me to give him $20/week and he wants me to pay the bills and make sure there is food to eat. Other than that, he doesn't care and wants to be left alone. He hates to drive, he has me take him where he wants to go. I chatter a lot and when I'm upset, I keep talking about the thing that upset me over and over. I need to do that to get it out of my system, but I don't expect him to actively listen once he has the gist of the situation.

    My real secret of 'controlling' him? I handle the things I can handle myself myself. I try not to nag him. I ask for what I want, but I am careful about cashing in my chips. I'm sweet to him and there is the sex, but I'm not really much of a freak.

    How does he dominate me? He's stubborn as all get out. You simply cannot make the man do something he does not want to do. Outside of that, he is sweet to me. He has never raised his voice at me in anger. He acts like I'm beautiful and he can't get enough of me. He makes me laugh all the time. Basically I adore him like I was his pet dog and I love to please him.

    People think my brother's wife is a dominating control freak, but what they don't realize is that my brother was raised to be extremely polite, so it is hard for him to be firm with people outside his immediate family. He makes his wife do the dirty work of telling people no or other things they don't want to hear because he can barely bring himself to do it and it makes him upset. She is protective of him and it doesn't bother her that much to have people mad at her if she knows she's in the right, so she does it for him because she loves him. She looks like a bitch and he looks like a saint, but IMO, they are both saints.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Sometimes people with very passive partners get a bad rap for being domineering when really they are just doing what needs to be done because their partner will not do it. Both partners can come to resent the situation, but find it difficult to correct the pattern. INTPs are capable of being extremely passive, so I would think twice before assigning all the blame on this guy's wife.

    Also, they may not really even be particularly dissatisfied. It can be very difficult to gage a couple's dynamic from the outside. My mother, for instance, thought for years that my husband was dominating me. While his mother thought I was controlling my husband (possibly through freaky sex, but she's not sure).

    The truth: who knows? It's complicated. He works his rear off while I stay home. I handle all the money. I answer all the phone calls. He has no social life and goes nowhere except for work without me. He calls himself my 'whipped cracker.' He only half listens to me a fair minority of the time.

    Am I dominating him? You try to get the man to answer the phone, lol. I've tried to get him to help manage the money. He has no interest in managing any money outside of the 401K. He tells me to give him $20/week and he wants me to pay the bills and make sure there is food to eat. Other than that, he doesn't care and wants to be left alone. He hates to drive, he has me take him where he wants to go. I chatter a lot and when I'm upset, I keep talking about the thing that upset me over and over. I need to do that to get it out of my system, but I don't expect him to actively listen once he has the gist of the situation.

    My real secret of 'controlling' him? I handle the things I can handle myself myself. I try not to nag him. I ask for what I want, but I am careful about cashing in my chips. I'm sweet to him and there is the sex, but I'm not really much of a freak.

    How does he dominate me? He's stubborn as all get out. You simply cannot make the man do something he does not want to do. Outside of that, he is sweet to me. He has never raised his voice at me in anger. He acts like I'm beautiful and he can't get enough of me. He makes me laugh all the time. Basically I adore him like I was his pet dog and I love to please him.

    People think my brother's wife is a dominating control freak, but what they don't realize is that my brother was raised to be extremely polite, so it is hard for him to be firm with people outside his immediate family. He makes his wife do the dirty work of telling people no or other things they don't want to hear because he can barely bring himself to do it and it makes him upset. She is protective of him and it doesn't bother her that much to have people mad at her if she knows she's in the right, so she does it for him because she loves him. She looks like a bitch and he looks like a saint, but IMO, they are both saints.
    That's exactly it.
    Every couple has their own dance,
    and it's not for us to judge.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Sometimes people with very passive partners get a bad rap for being domineering when really they are just doing what needs to be done because their partner will not do it. Both partners can come to resent the situation, but find it difficult to correct the pattern. INTPs are capable of being extremely passive, so I would think twice before assigning all the blame on this guy's wife.

    Also, they may not really even be particularly dissatisfied. It can be very difficult to gage a couple's dynamic from the outside. My mother, for instance, thought for years that my husband was dominating me. While his mother thought I was controlling my husband (possibly through freaky sex, but she's not sure).

    The truth: who knows? It's complicated. He works his rear off while I stay home. I handle all the money. I answer all the phone calls. He has no social life and goes nowhere except for work without me. He calls himself my 'whipped cracker.' He only half listens to me a fair minority of the time.

    Am I dominating him? You try to get the man to answer the phone, lol. I've tried to get him to help manage the money. He has no interest in managing any money outside of the 401K. He tells me to give him $20/week and he wants me to pay the bills and make sure there is food to eat. Other than that, he doesn't care and wants to be left alone. He hates to drive, he has me take him where he wants to go. I chatter a lot and when I'm upset, I keep talking about the thing that upset me over and over. I need to do that to get it out of my system, but I don't expect him to actively listen once he has the gist of the situation.

    My real secret of 'controlling' him? I handle the things I can handle myself myself. I try not to nag him. I ask for what I want, but I am careful about cashing in my chips. I'm sweet to him and there is the sex, but I'm not really much of a freak.

    How does he dominate me? He's stubborn as all get out. You simply cannot make the man do something he does not want to do. Outside of that, he is sweet to me. He has never raised his voice at me in anger. He acts like I'm beautiful and he can't get enough of me. He makes me laugh all the time. Basically I adore him like I was his pet dog and I love to please him.

    People think my brother's wife is a dominating control freak, but what they don't realize is that my brother was raised to be extremely polite, so it is hard for him to be firm with people outside his immediate family. He makes his wife do the dirty work of telling people no or other things they don't want to hear because he can barely bring himself to do it and it makes him upset. She is protective of him and it doesn't bother her that much to have people mad at her if she knows she's in the right, so she does it for him because she loves him. She looks like a bitch and he looks like a saint, but IMO, they are both saints.
    Like I said, some women prefer to have their husbands be their personal assistants, rather than partners. It makes them feel "safe".

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Like I said, some women prefer to have their husbands be their personal assistants, rather than partners. It makes them feel "safe".
    So do many men not do the same thing or do you consider it acceptable when it's a man doing it instead of a woman?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #17
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    That's exactly it.
    Every couple has their own dance,
    and it's not for us to judge.

    This reminds me of another quote:

    "every marriage is both better and worse than anyone else knows."

    Sometimes a person needs a release by talking about something mean
    his/her partner did, but you might not hear about what the partner
    did that was sweet or kind.

    If actual pain is reported, it might be necessary to step in, but I think
    that's a rare situation. The most respectful and helpful route is not
    to offer your judgment unless directly asked for it, and even then, take care.

    I listen to a lot of friends about their marital woes, and I assume
    I'm only hearing part of the story. I'm always surprised (and sad)
    if I learn they've decided to divorce. I decide for myself if I could
    put up with this trait in exchange for that by watching
    them together, not by what's said as a complaint.

    In terms of family dynamics, in-laws have a bad reputation that's
    often deserved for blaming their son- or daughter-in-law for
    seeming inequities and problems in the marital relationship.

    My sister and parents thought my husband wasn't the right
    partner for me when they met him. Turns out they were wrong.

    Jae Rae
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  8. #18
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Sometimes a person needs a release by talking about something mean
    his/her partner did, but you might not hear about what the partner
    did that was sweet or kind.
    Also, nobody wants to hear about how happy you are with your spouse. People bond by commiserating with one another, not, apparently, by rejoicing in the good fortune of one another. Most people learn their lesson and shut up about the good stuff.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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