things you have hard time understanding on how some function works

[KDude]

Fe

Today at lunch, we all order strombolis....
Myself, ISTP, ESFJ, and ISxJ. ESFJ and ISxJ's orders get mixed up (They had the same stromboli but ESFJ had peppers). ESFJ had already cut and ate a piece of the one in front of him, so they had to switch (ISXJ doesn't like peppers). So at least 3 times ESFJ offers to compensate for the piece of stromboli he ate off ISxJ's, either by buying him a new one, or switchin that half he cut). The ISxJ said it was fine the first time, why do you have to force the issue?

So I asked the ESFJ and we used a scenerio where he asked his friends to pick up some liquor he liked. The friends were having him over, and in addition to feeding him and giving him a place to stay that night, they didn't want any $$ for the liquor. He insisted that he pay for the liquor, since they did so much for him already. He felt that it was too much for them to do all that for him and he give nothing in return. He pretty much forced the money on them. I think if they said don't worry about it, I'd accept the gesture, and then when it's my turn to be the host, repay them in that same manner. He agreed to disagree, he felt that while he could do that, in the particular situation paying for it would be best. Makes no sense to me.

^I can't exactly think of something to compare that with, but ESFJs I know have been like that.. repeating things, insisting on something and such. I thought it had something to do with covering their tracks or confusion with the future and how things may develop if they don't take care of this or that. But since you're ISTJ (apparently ), then that theory goes out the window. Or it could be an extroverted thing.

Also, I think ESTJs can be the same, although it's in different (non-Fe) like areas. I'm the one who has to forecast and create little scenarios for my dad (ESTJ), for example, so he doesn't freak out. In Socionics, it's explained that ESjs have Ni PoLR, and it makes a lot of sense to me. With that in mind, this may be why they have a habit of repeating orders, repeating requests, insisting on a certain path, etc.. They're very unsure of the future.

The point I'm getting at is that maybe your ESFj thinks the sandwich scenario would bite him back in the ass one day if he doesn't take care of it now.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Very interesting Ti perspective on Fi. Hmm...

Different type difference example:
My best friend is an ESTJ. I recall one time, sitting down with her, and talking about sometimes wanting to break up with my boyfriend (who I did indeed love and wanted greatly to spend my life with him) because sometimes I just have these impulses to take off like the wind... explore the world on my own two feet, non-attached.

She greatly couldn't comprehend this and stated that even if she wanted to go off and do something for herself like that, she just wouldn't. She's very commitment oriented. I suppose these are differences of Si and Se.

Now, I don't want to say Se isn't commitment oriented. But rather Se (Like Ne), is about exploratory and sensual possibilities. We can indeed commit or can sit still, but will feel as though we're missing out on something great that's going on in the world.

 

[KDude]

Very interesting Ti perspective on Fi. Hmm...

Different type difference example:
My best friend is an ESTJ. I recall one time, sitting down with her, and talking about sometimes wanting to break up with my boyfriend (who I did indeed love and wanted greatly to spend my life with him) because sometimes I just have these impulses to take off like the wind... explore the world on my own two feet, non-attached.

She greatly couldn't comprehend this and stated that even if she wanted to go off and do something for herself like that, she just wouldn't. She's very commitment oriented. I suppose these are differences of Si and Se.

Now, I don't want to say Se isn't commitment oriented. But rather Se (Like Ne), is about exploratory and sensual possibilities. We can indeed commit or can sit still, but will feel as though we're missing out on something great that's going on in the world.

Eh.. I'm pretty commitment oriented myself. I don't really date that much, but if I want to hook up, I'm not like you. And to be honest, about the only people I'd free myself from is people like you (Not that I don't respect you choice, but it's too much trouble for me personally).

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I keep trying to understand though... is this all xSxP's... or self preservation xSxP's?


And believe me, I don't think I ever would have actually broken up with him due to wanting to take off like the wind, climb the highest mountain, etc... but rather, it would often come to mind and make me wonder if I would be missing out on something. My particular INFP ex hated traveling, and I yearned for it. Ultimately, I always decided that I loved him and stayed... but every so often the feeling would come back.

 

[KDude]

I keep trying to understand though... is this all xSxP's... or self preservation xSxP's?


And believe me, I don't think I ever would have actually broken up with him due to wanting to take off like the wind, climb the highest mountain, etc... but rather, it would often come to mind and make me wonder if I would be missing out on something. My particular INFP ex hated traveling, and I yearned for it. Ultimately, I always decided that I loved him and stayed... but every so often the feeling would come back.

I love traveling.. if that's all you meant. I just meant that I'm kind of.. idealistic with relationships, for lack of a better word.

And yeah, I think SPs are generally kind of in the moment about that kind of thing (not that they aren't committed necessarily).

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I'm intensely idealistic and romantic, as well. But I suppose this extends to my views about life in other aspects, as well. It wasn't meant in a, I want to see/experience other relationships type of way. But rather, the urge to explore Thailand, visit France, find myself in India. That sort of way... and I suppose that though I immensely want to find true love, I also immensely want to experience the world independently. Make sense? Maybe this isn't simply Se on it's own, but Se with some sort of other integration, be it Fi, e4, self preservationist? I dunno.

 

[KDude]

I'm intensely idealistic and romantic, as well. But I suppose this extends to my views about life in other aspects, as well. It wasn't meant in a, I want to see/experience other relationships type of way. But rather, the urge to explore Thailand, visit France, find myself in India. That sort of way... and I suppose that though I immensely want to find true love, I also immensely want to experience the world independently. Make sense? Maybe this isn't simply Se on it's own, but Se with some sort of other integration, be it Fi, e4, self preservationist? I dunno.

I would prefer traveling with someone. I don't like to be too obligated with people and need freedom as well, but the whole solo road trip thing isn't fun to me. Apparently, ISFPs in Keirsey's description are into this whole freedom/into the wild thing. Not for me. If anything, because it's fun to talk about everything you're seeing with someone.

That said, I could see how that would be difficult if he didn't like traveling at all. That wouldn't work out for me either. In the same way I wouldn't hook up with someone who didn't like pets or some other hangup that ended up being stifling.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Apparently, ISFPs in Keirsey's description are into this whole freedom/into the wild thing. Not for me.

Yes!

That said, I could see how that would be difficult if he didn't like traveling at all. That wouldn't work out for me either. In the same way I wouldn't hook up with someone who didn't like pets or some other hangup that ended up being stifling.

I suppose it had to do with the fact we started dating at age 19, and this never became relevant until I was 22, 23, to both myself and about him. But by this point, I was already in love.

 

[IZthe411]

^I can't exactly think of something to compare that with, but ESFJs I know have been like that.. repeating things, insisting on something and such. I thought it had something to do with covering their tracks or confusion with the future and how things may develop if they don't take care of this or that. But since you're ISTJ (apparently ), then that theory goes out the window. Or it could be an extroverted thing.

Also, I think ESTJs can be the same, although it's in different (non-Fe) like areas. I'm the one who has to forecast and create little scenarios for my dad (ESTJ), for example, so he doesn't freak out. In Socionics, it's explained that ESjs have Ni PoLR, and it makes a lot of sense to me. With that in mind, this may be why they have a habit of repeating orders, repeating requests, insisting on a certain path, etc.. They're very unsure of the future.

The point I'm getting at is that maybe your ESFj thinks the sandwich scenario would bite him back in the ass one day if he doesn't take care of it now.

It might be the way their Fe-Si works....if their Si is stuck on one outlook, then their Fe actions will be stuck as well. It's like they have to carry out XY and Z because this current situation always calls for it, no exceptions. Like in this instance, if I am indebted to you for any reason, I have to match what you do or even go one step forward. No exceptions.

Today we went to a BBQ spot. He generously shared his cornbread with the ENTP who didn't realize that they had cornbread, even though it was on the menu. The guy's got a heart of gold; it's just the insistence that irks me.