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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    But wouldn't that work the other way around as well? Even if the egg takes in oxygen or something, it will release some unwanted gases. Actually, I even pointed this possibility out and as either of us knew if there is some gas exchange or not, I constructed the argument about it like "If there is no gas exchange whatsoever, the egg cannot gain weight" but still she disagreed with this scenario. She thought that if the chick is growing inside, the egg as a whole will gain weight.

    And this really wasn't my point. The point was that she was not willing to have a debate over an emotionally neutral subject, and wouldn't really say why. I also sensed that she was becoming less than emotionally neutral about it as the discussion went on. So, what is going on there?
    You were pushing her which is why she was becoming less emotionally neutral and she didnt want to be pushed. So why is this Fe? From my experience Fe would appease the discussion because its the socially polite thing to do.

  2. #12
    Senor Membrane
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    Well, she is pretty clearly Fe dom or aux, judging by her usual behavior.

  3. #13
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Ni. I realize it's my tertiary... but I have a hard time understanding the definition, unless it's specifically directed towards ISFP's use of Ni. Ne I can comprehend, Ni not so easily. It's the only one that eludes me, and it's one of my functions!

    That, and specifically the use of Fe for INFJ's. It seems different from the other Fe users. Often seeming like Fi's.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  4. #14
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I agree with this...in fact I think part of Fi is that you shift according to people you're with, and as long as ENTPs are okay with sitting beside you doing something with a computer, then that's cool right? Same thing with ISTJ reading in the next room, etc. I'd only feel guilty if the person was an FJ who really felt puzzled and hurt by my self-absorption.

    I think maybe when I was younger I probably projected my own issues on to other people more, maybe. Because that sounds like what's going on here...the INFPs own feeling of being left out or ignored projected on to others.
    I think.. I don't really have "hosting" in my repertoire (or as a set of values) per se, so I don't really think about it enough to feel guilty. I don't exactly stay away for long when there's company either so I've never put it to the test, but I know I wouldn't really get intense like this. Chalk it up to different environment or something. I could apply it to something vaguely similar, where I felt bad about someone being left out..even when they didn't want me to. It's only when there's some blatant snubbing going on. Like I remember there was a cookout and the guy cooking hamburgers intentionally tried to leave someone out. It was just some stupid/bitchy signal to try to make them leave. I got on his case and convinced him to cook something. In those kind of things, I suppose I'm trying to be a good host.

  5. #15
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    ^he could have shadowed ENFJ? i really don't get the shadow functions. haha.

    i'd say i used to not have a problem feeling like a bad host. i'd just sort of drift off unknowingly and do my own thing.

    however, now that i'm older i do try to be a good host to friends visiting. my Fi (or shadow Fe?) will want to make sure everyones having a good time. has food if they're hungry, or beverages if they are thirsty and in general are entertained and having a good time. etc. which is why i actually prefer to just not host... it's exhausting. but if it's really good friends, then i feel as though something they'll have to learn about me is that i'm not always going to be attentive to their needs. this is less being mean, but more being introverted. i prefer company where we can all hang out but still sort of do our own thing. like one of us on the computer, another reading. the other listening to music. whatever. but that's real friendship, being comfortable with silence.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    then i feel as though something they'll have to learn about me is that i'm not always going to be attentive to their needs. this is less being mean, but more being introverted. i prefer company where we can all hang out but still sort of do our own thing. like one of us on the computer, another reading. the other listening to music. whatever. but that's real friendship, being comfortable with silence.
    Yeah, pretty much the same. And I don't really have to tell my friends.. they're mostly laid back dudes and chicks and would just laugh at me anyways. I do have EFJ friends that go all out and they're awesome.. but I don't see myself that way at all.

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I get what your INFP friend was talking about Inside it feels like this weird ache and you worry that he person may being saying everything is okay, just to be polite, so you might note he may ask a few times in a row. It almost looks like seeking affirmation-I suppose in a weird way it is more seeking external calibration. Inside he feels like he might be "hurting" you via his lack of attention, so by asking, he can fine tune his response to what you actually feel rather than what he projects you to be feeling.
    but the weird part is that at the time it happened(the "neglecting" thing), he didnt feel bad about it, neither did he ask about it. he started feeling bad about it later and when he told me that he feels bad about it, i told its ok etc etc. still he felt bad about it. when i asked why he feels bad about it, he explained that it wasnt about if we felt neglected or not, but only about that he feels that he neglected us.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #18
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    hmm... i suppose he might not had realized at the time due to introversion. he was immersed.

    but maybe an enneagram stacking of SO might make him feel analytical and guilty later?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  9. #19
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Fe

    Today at lunch, we all order strombolis....
    Myself, ISTP, ESFJ, and ISxJ. ESFJ and ISxJ's orders get mixed up (They had the same stromboli but ESFJ had peppers). ESFJ had already cut and ate a piece of the one in front of him, so they had to switch (ISXJ doesn't like peppers). So at least 3 times ESFJ offers to compensate for the piece of stromboli he ate off ISxJ's, either by buying him a new one, or switchin that half he cut). The ISxJ said it was fine the first time, why do you have to force the issue?

    So I asked the ESFJ and we used a scenerio where he asked his friends to pick up some liquor he liked. The friends were having him over, and in addition to feeding him and giving him a place to stay that night, they didn't want any $$ for the liquor. He insisted that he pay for the liquor, since they did so much for him already. He felt that it was too much for them to do all that for him and he give nothing in return. He pretty much forced the money on them. I think if they said don't worry about it, I'd accept the gesture, and then when it's my turn to be the host, repay them in that same manner. He agreed to disagree, he felt that while he could do that, in the particular situation paying for it would be best. Makes no sense to me.

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    but the weird part is that at the time it happened(the "neglecting" thing), he didnt feel bad about it, neither did he ask about it. he started feeling bad about it later and when he told me that he feels bad about it, i told its ok etc etc. still he felt bad about it. when i asked why he feels bad about it, he explained that it wasnt about if we felt neglected or not, but only about that he feels that he neglected us.
    I just had an awesome lunch with my entp and she pointed this^^ out as being one of the more retarded aspects of Fi. We were discussing selfishness and she said she couldnt see how anything could be more selfish than to mope around not forgiving yourself for something that didnt matter and everybody forgot. I was like-but it doesnt feel selfish or self centered-it feels ridiculously sad because I did something that may have hurt another. Her response-"you need to get over your own emo guilt, and maybe if you werent focusing so much on that you actually could focus on the other person. Selfish" Then we just laughed and nod knowingly, because we can totally get how weird it is from each other's perspective.

    To be honest, we projected and misunderstood each other for awhile, discovered the underlying truth for a while, had some serious fights that make these forum threads look tame for a few months, and now we have reached the stage of an old married couple where being a Ti FAIL, selfish Fi user or two faced fe user or rude obnoxious stupid Te user are endearments that have fallen into a comfortable Ne pattern of repeatability. So now it just makes us roll our eyes and giggle as to understand how very alien we are. I think this stuff is helping her with her ISTJ husband though as she can get mad at me and we beat the topics down, then she can recognize the patterns in him and at least "get" it, even if it is seemingly irrational.

    But specifically-if your friend was an enfp, I'd say he might have fixated on whatever interested him-then later upon reflection realized he had been an ass and is now seeking external forgiveness. I still do it now at times, but I dont ask the question as it bugs people. I dunno if some infps might do that too...

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