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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jive A Turkey's Avatar
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    My mother is dominant Si and she has a strong fear of travel. The two seem like they could be connected based on the information in this post.

  2. #22
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    curious. So how do you define it now?

    *waits for sparkling insight from INFJ*


    eh, it's hard to explain. it clicks finally, though. stupid Ni...

    i could define it, but it wouldn't be very sparkly lol. it would just be reiterating certain things that have already been said.

    actually, it kind of reminds me of confirmation bias. and dispositional attribution (as opposed to situational).

    dispositional attribution...yeah.

  3. #23
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jive A Turkey View Post
    My mother is dominant Si and she has a strong fear of travel. The two seem like they could be connected based on the information in this post.
    They could. Staying in the place you've experienced down to the tiniest pebble (to exaggerate) will feel safe and sensible. New places could always spell trouble, and trouble in a place you don't even know at that. Better not to travel if you can. That said, most Si dominant people don't fear traveling, and though they might not be your typical random backpacker (preferring instead to plan ahead and travel to places where they know approximately what to expect), they can be pretty used to traveling.

    Other functions come into play as well. A Si-Fe person in a culture where people travel a a lot would for instance have a strong reason to travel as well. (Because of Fe -> being concerned with societal standards and expectations.) A Si-Te person on the other hand could really hate traveling, because in addition to leaving predictable, he's also leaving a place where he's probably used to controlling his external surroundings for a place where he'll have much less control (Te).

    Hm... but yes, there could be a connection. I know whenever I'm about to travel, I always feel a small unease when leaving the safe and predictable, even while I at the same time am wagging my tail to experience new and unpredictable. I think this unease could be weak Si.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  4. #24
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    eh, it's hard to explain. it clicks finally, though. stupid Ni...

    i could define it, but it wouldn't be very sparkly lol. it would just be reiterating certain things that have already been said.

    actually, it kind of reminds me of confirmation bias.
    Or OCD[/quip]
    we fukin won boys

  5. #25
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    I originally posted this on INTPc a few weeks ago. I'm posting it here (with some minor edits) because I'm curious if the ISXJs on here think this is at all accurate, or whether I've got it completely wrong. It's something I spent quite a bit of time thinking about - but given I can't actually see inside someone's head, it could be totally screwy.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    One of my ISTJ colleagues is pretty familiar with MBTI and other personality profiling and she's somewhat introspective, so I've learnt a bit from her. As far as I can tell, following a set process is comfortable for her, and it's enjoyable. If she doesn't have a process set out, she's way out of her comfort zone and she feels stressed.

    Maybe that's what drives the need for closure - to have everything decided and planned in advance. If she has to get something done, and she hasn't done it before and there isn't a stepwise process written out somewhere to follow, she comes to me because I can invent a process for her to follow that she can write down.

    I still haven't worked out what actually drives her to get things done though. Perhaps it's more that 'getting things done' is part of the processes thing. That part of the process is doing the things on the list of things to do. And if you don't do things, then the process hasn't been followed.

    I have a good friend who is an ISFJ. She operates in a similar way, but her focus is on people, not abstract tasks. She is the ultimate hostess. She also gets way out of her comfort zone if she's in a people situation which she hasn't come across before. She doesn't know what the 'correct' thing to do is, so she gets stressed until someone tells her what the 'correct' process is, eg an unusual dish at a dinner party and how to serve it for herself on her plate.

    I think the doing things for other people is because it's the 'correct' thing to do according to her mental model of processes. She can't comprehend not doing things for people, like baking a cake on someone's birthday for everyone she works with. Because that is part of her mental picture of the world. It is very hard to put into words though. It's not motivated by wanting other people to feel at ease or comfortable (because, frankly, her excessive hostessing can sometimes make me very uncomfortable, but she does it anyway because it's the right thing to do in her eyes).

    As far as I can tell, Si involves mental models but of processes - not ideas or concepts.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    ISTJ...following a set process is comfortable for her, and it's enjoyable. If she doesn't have a process set out, she's way out of her comfort zone and she feels stressed.
    ...need for closure - to have everything decided and planned in advance.

    ISFJ...but her focus is on people, not abstract tasks. She is the ultimate hostess.
    ...gets way out of her comfort zone if she's in a people situation which she hasn't come across before.
    ...doesn't know what the 'correct' thing to do is, so she gets stressed...
    ...can't comprehend not doing things for people, like baking a cake on someone's birthday for everyone she works with. Because that is part of her mental picture of the world.

    ... It's not motivated by wanting other people to feel at ease or comfortable (because, frankly, her excessive hostessing can sometimes make me very uncomfortable, but she does it anyway because it's the right thing to do in her eyes).
    FWIW I can identify with the quotes here, except the last. I do want people to feel at ease and enjoy the best work I am capable of. Partly because I believe that it is my responsibility to do the best I can for others with what I have and partly because I utilize the feedback from their experiences to make the next experience incrementally better.

    I started out on this forum with the impression that my preferences would label me ISTJ...but as time passed and I began to learn more I found the T and J very fuzzy for me.

    As also mentioned I store volumes of trivial data and don't even realize it. And I do have those "hunches" as well...though I have a hard time believing them because I am constantly self-questioning the reliability of anything especially my perceptions. Having been wrong or failing at somthing makes me hyper vigilant about a re-attempt. Not that I won't, just that I will feel the need to be ridiculously over-prepared. This can really just rob the joy out of many experiences...it is somewhat similar to an addiction I feel.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  7. #27
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Funny how all those descriptions of Si make me uncomfortable... It's like I have to turn myself inside out to get a sense of Si. Weird!

  8. #28
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Funny how all those descriptions of Si make me uncomfortable... It's like I have to turn myself inside out to get a sense of Si. Weird!
    ?

    What do you mean?
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
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  9. #29
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    ?

    What do you mean?
    Hm... How to explain that?

    It's like Si is about doing in the sensory realm what I want to do in my head, and vice versa.

    Attention to details, for example. I can be obsessive about details when I contemplate ideas and theories and things like that: I *love* going into such details (to the exasperation of quite a few people I have talked to online). But when it comes to the sensory world, details quickly overwhelm and irritate me. As long as the general feeling I get from the outside world is OK, I don't care about the details. I really don't. I don't care what one is wearing, what car people drive, what I'm going to eat for lunch, and so on.

    That's something that's easily noticeable in any fiction I write for example: you will find extremely little mention of what the environment looks like for example, unless it is directly important to the story. Even when I imagine the scene, I don't have any details in it except for those that matter: the rooms are empty of furniture unless I need it, I have no idea what my characters are wearing unless it matters, and so on. But I can tell you more than you'll ever want to know about what they are thinking and feeling, about their motivations and fears, and in fact, in one way or another, that's basically what my stories always end up being ABOUT.

    Similarly, when it comes to *remembering* details, I naturally want to do the opposite of what Si does. Si will remember minute details from years ago. Argh! Just that thought makes me sick! I want to remember the GIST of things, what they MEAN, but certainly not what they were like. (That regularly lands me into troubles, mind you, like for example when I end up saying things like: "I don't remember exactly what he said, but this is what he meant... Believe me?")

    There was also something about being settled in one's environment. Uh, settled. That's one word I really don't relate to. For me, settling is dying and life is change. I abbhor routines with a passion, for example, and I have to make a MAJOR move every few years. A static sensory environment is a nightmare for me, no matter how comfortable it may be at first. You could give me the house of my dreams, and I'd absolutely love it and enjoy it at first, but if you forced me to always keep it in the exact same way you gave it to me, I'd eventually, after a few years, find a way to escape it - and I can go to extreme lengths for that. In my head, though, a stable, reliable environment is what I am constantly after, if only because I can almost never get it, because there is always a detail (see, details!) here or there that just doesn't fit. But when I do get to that state of bliss where, for just a minute, all the details seem to fit just right into a great picture, it's like WAOUH! And I wish it would last. But it never does, because new details come in that just don't fit and I have to find a new great picture that takes them into account. A settled mind is my Holy Graal, but a settled life is my personal Hell.

    And then there's comparison. I suck *big time* at comparing sensory inputs. I mean, it's so bad I can't even identify basic tastes like apple or whatever in cakes: I get the weirdest of looks from people when I am forced to admit I have no idea what taste their cake or food or drink is supposed to be. And don't ask me to compare something that's happening now with something that happened before, because I'll draw the blankest of blanks. First because I can barely remember what happened before anyway (in sensory terms, I mean), and second because even if I did, I'm no good at comparing. I can tell you if I like this or that better, but I can't compare them and I might start crying if you insist I do, because that's how helpless I'll feel. But when it comes to ideas or theories, man, I live for that! Comparing new inputs to previous understandings, comparing new inputs between them, I love doing those things.

    See what I mean?

  10. #30
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    It is like the details do not exist unless we are reminded of them... or that they somehow become linked to other parts of the idea in meaningful connections do we think about them. I think Ni likes to focus on how some parts of objects relates to other things. To bring all the little details into focus is to overwhelm the mind. Imagine each piece is related to Nth number of other ones. For every single piece you integrate into the model, the number of related pieces goes up by the power of n. A computer has difficulties handling such inputs, let along the human mind with our limited discrete memory.

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