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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Extroverted Intuition and Religion

    “It goes without saying that such a type is uncommonly important both economically and culturally. If his intentions are good, i.e, if his attitude is not too egocentric, he can render exceptional service as the initiator or promoter of new enterprises. He is the natural champion of all minorities with a future. Because he is able, when oriented more to people than things, to make an intuitive diagnosis of their abilities and potentialities, he can also “make” men. His capacity to inspire courage or to kindle enthusiasm for anything new is unrivalled..”

    “Since his intuition is concerned with externals and with feretting out their possibilities, he readily turns to professions in which he can exploit these capacities to the full. Many business tycoons, entrepreneurs, speculators, stockbrokers, politicians, etc., belong to this type.”

    Psychological types, P.369
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Extroverted Intuition and Religion

    I notice that most of the ENP members I've exchanged words with on this site had dogmatic religious beliefs. In my life I've come across several ENPs who professed to be religious zealots. Yet, I certainly had doubts about the sincerity and of their claim.



    For one, I have an older ENTP 'friend' who holds a senior pastor position in his church. He always carries many masks and rarely lets the opportunity slip to coax the audience into believing that he is exactly what they'd like to see. The man always carries many masks and the way he manipulates them aroud is nothign short of a work of art. It is very common to see him interact with many groups of people simultaneously, leading each one to believe that he is a steadfast champion of their cause. He almost never knew where he stood, but of course, this noone, not even he himself was aware of! At the time he earnestly thought that he believed in what he was preaching, yet had no compunction about asserting almost the opposite the next sermon. Seemingly ignoring or failing to see the contradiction. Yet of course, even the most analytical of minds would have trouble pointing out his deceptive tendencies as he always managed to obfuscate them in dense walls of rhetoric and artistic expression. His claims were usually open to double or even triple layers of interpretation and when questioned he managed to skillfully maneuver his way out of the charges. On several occassions it took me over an hour of intense scrutiny to pin him down. And when pinned down, he infallibly succeeds at making the charge seem less grave or even endearing to the accuser. This, unfortunately, was the part where I was unable to call him on his bs as making quick value judgments is not my strong side.




    My other ENFP friend rocked the same show for 5 years. Professing to be a religious zealot at the outset, and completely lost his faith a few months ago. He had even stronger presentation skills than the former as he not only knew how to come in tune with the 'spirit of the time', but also he knew how to make his sermons endearing to the individual. Thus, this character managed to put up the presentation everyone liked irrespectively of its content or his personal beliefs. Those who have shown disagreement or displeasure were tamed momentarily, walking away feeling like they are the center of his life. Over a dozen of people could earnestly claim that they felt very special talking to him after the sermon even though he may never think of them again. Such people also would have forgotten their indignation at what he said, assuming it was something profound and extremely endearing. When in reality he uttered a thousand words having said nothing, only made the position he presented on stage seem different, yet at the essence it was the same damn thing. Afraid of being questioned? Yes, unlike the ENTP he lacked the sharp, quick-thinking analytical mind to contest people directly who challenge him, but he certainly loved to boast how he could equivocate around their questions and in the end they love him all the more for it.

    Why did these men happen to be dominant Extroverted Intuitives and what does this tell us about Extroverted Intuition. Is it merely a coincidence that such behavior happened to be acted out by those two ENPs? I would think not. Ne, as I described in my ENTP profile easily adapts to the Intuitive patterns shared by the external environment. Thus because ENTPs are strongly in tune with the external perception itself, and perception itself is malleable, they can easily manipulate the external perceptions dressing them in any form they need them to be in. They naturally identify with the 'spirit of the time' and zestfully merge with it.

    The ENFP likely will embody the popular sentiments with a great sense of inner personal conviction appealing to the individual (Fi as slave to Ne), yet in reality there is nothing individualistic about what they said. It is means to the end of enticing the masses. The idea is radically collectivist almost by the essence of itself.



    ENTP on the other hand will perceive the external situation as means to the end of achieving his impersonal goals. Much like the great Machiavelli. Religion is very attractive to both types as it offers ample opportunities to influence the masses and make a name for oneself. As religion is often identified with orthodoxy, and conventional society identifies virtue with orthodoxy itself. Thus to be normal and to be good mean the same thing without a doubt here.

    Thoughts?

    Any other ENP experiences and why these types gravitate towards organized religion. It should be noted that this has nothing to do with pursuing morality or higher purpose. It is all about exploiting the religious orthodoxy to appease one's vanity. Personal beliefs and ambitions are of ancillary importance to making an impact in the external world.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I'm an ENFP and I am religiously anti-religious.

    Intellectually agnostic, and realistically an atheist.

    Can't speak for others, but this has always been the case for me.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I'm an ENP and I couldn't care less about religion.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #5
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I'm an ENFP and I am religiously anti-religious.

    Intellectually agnostic, and realistically an atheist.

    Can't speak for others, but this has always been the case for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm an ENP and I couldn't care less about religion.
    Religion is highly instrumental at making a name for yourself and promoting whatever desire your whim shall command. Having rejected this, how do you plan on accomplishing that eventually? Don't you think its rather unwise to reject religion just because you dont agree with their spiritual teaching and ethics?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    haha

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Religion is highly instrumental at making a name for yourself and promoting whatever desire your whim shall command. Having rejected this, how do you plan on accomplishing that eventually? Don't you think its rather unwise to reject religion just because you dont agree with their spiritual teaching and ethics?
    LOL, what?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #8
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    LOL, what?


    I believe BlueWing was being tongue-in-cheek.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure. I don't recall ever seeing Seahorse use humor in the past.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #10
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Religion is highly instrumental at making a name for yourself and promoting whatever desire your whim shall command. Having rejected this, how do you plan on accomplishing that eventually? Don't you think its rather unwise to reject religion just because you dont agree with their spiritual teaching and ethics?
    I am fluent in English yet am having some major problems translating this.

    To be honest, the questions you raise make absolutely no sense.

    I'm confused by your absence of logical progression.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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