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  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    To disagree with this, it would seem to be to refute that your type is actually ENFP.
    Not really. Not every ENFP must have such attitudes, but these are some very general tendencies.

    The point was Extroverted Intuition gravitates towards influencing others and maintaining a stellar image. This may manifest in a myriad of fashions. The ones cited above are just a few examples, yet settle the point supremely well.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #22
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    ^ that's all you got???

    Two lousy emoticons and a "pass-the-mic" forfeiture!!!!!!
    Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future!

    Your biggest fan,

    BW.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    All right, peoples, fun is fun... but please start to play nice or we're going to have to ditch the thread.

    (That goes for people who are overtly insulting others, as well as for those who are coyly pushing people's buttons -- and I think you know who y'all are.) Thanks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I notice that most of the ENP members I've exchanged words with on this site had dogmatic religious beliefs. In my life I've come across several ENPs who professed to be religious zealots. Yet, I certainly had doubts about the sincerity and of their claim.



    For one, I have an older ENTP 'friend' who holds a senior pastor position in his church. He always carries many masks and rarely lets the opportunity slip to coax the audience into believing that he is exactly what they'd like to see. The man always carries many masks and the way he manipulates them aroud is nothign short of a work of art. It is very common to see him interact with many groups of people simultaneously, leading each one to believe that he is a steadfast champion of their cause. He almost never knew where he stood, but of course, this noone, not even he himself was aware of! At the time he earnestly thought that he believed in what he was preaching, yet had no compunction about asserting almost the opposite the next sermon. Seemingly ignoring or failing to see the contradiction. Yet of course, even the most analytical of minds would have trouble pointing out his deceptive tendencies as he always managed to obfuscate them in dense walls of rhetoric and artistic expression. His claims were usually open to double or even triple layers of interpretation and when questioned he managed to skillfully maneuver his way out of the charges. On several occassions it took me over an hour of intense scrutiny to pin him down. And when pinned down, he infallibly succeeds at making the charge seem less grave or even endearing to the accuser. This, unfortunately, was the part where I was unable to call him on his bs as making quick value judgments is not my strong side.




    My other ENFP friend rocked the same show for 5 years. Professing to be a religious zealot at the outset, and completely lost his faith a few months ago. He had even stronger presentation skills than the former as he not only knew how to come in tune with the 'spirit of the time', but also he knew how to make his sermons endearing to the individual. Thus, this character managed to put up the presentation everyone liked irrespectively of its content or his personal beliefs. Those who have shown disagreement or displeasure were tamed momentarily, walking away feeling like they are the center of his life. Over a dozen of people could earnestly claim that they felt very special talking to him after the sermon even though he may never think of them again. Such people also would have forgotten their indignation at what he said, assuming it was something profound and extremely endearing. When in reality he uttered a thousand words having said nothing, only made the position he presented on stage seem different, yet at the essence it was the same damn thing. Afraid of being questioned? Yes, unlike the ENTP he lacked the sharp, quick-thinking analytical mind to contest people directly who challenge him, but he certainly loved to boast how he could equivocate around their questions and in the end they love him all the more for it.

    Why did these men happen to be dominant Extroverted Intuitives and what does this tell us about Extroverted Intuition. Is it merely a coincidence that such behavior happened to be acted out by those two ENPs? I would think not. Ne, as I described in my ENTP profile easily adapts to the Intuitive patterns shared by the external environment. Thus because ENTPs are strongly in tune with the external perception itself, and perception itself is malleable, they can easily manipulate the external perceptions dressing them in any form they need them to be in. They naturally identify with the 'spirit of the time' and zestfully merge with it.

    The ENFP likely will embody the popular sentiments with a great sense of inner personal conviction appealing to the individual (Fi as slave to Ne), yet in reality there is nothing individualistic about what they said. It is means to the end of enticing the masses. The idea is radically collectivist almost by the essence of itself.



    ENTP on the other hand will perceive the external situation as means to the end of achieving his impersonal goals. Much like the great Machiavelli. Religion is very attractive to both types as it offers ample opportunities to influence the masses and make a name for oneself. As religion is often identified with orthodoxy, and conventional society identifies virtue with orthodoxy itself. Thus to be normal and to be good mean the same thing without a doubt here.

    Thoughts?

    Any other ENP experiences and why these types gravitate towards organized religion. It should be noted that this has nothing to do with pursuing morality or higher purpose. It is all about exploiting the religious orthodoxy to appease one's vanity. Personal beliefs and ambitions are of ancillary importance to making an impact in the external world.
    I don't even care whether god exists, and I'm a bit insulted by the 'extreme collectivist' stuff (or whatever that armchair theorizing is). So, frankly, la-dee-da to your theory.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Not really. Not every ENFP must have such attitudes, but these are some very general tendencies.

    The point was Extroverted Intuition gravitates towards influencing others and maintaining a stellar image. This may manifest in a myriad of fashions. The ones cited above are just a few examples, yet settle the point supremely well.
    these are little armchair theories that you pulled out of your ass.

    I can't help wondering... are you just playing a schlock jock to piss people off? Because you sure are enjoying this.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Religion is highly instrumental at making a name for yourself and promoting whatever desire your whim shall command. Having rejected this, how do you plan on accomplishing that eventually? Don't you think its rather unwise to reject religion just because you dont agree with their spiritual teaching and ethics?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    In my world, religious people are associated as being automatons, and or dogmatic idiots.


    I am curious if you would consider people who go around wearing militant/lockstep atheism, something like political correctness or fanatical green environmentalism like a mantle are doing the same type of promotional manipulations? I have known types like this and they seem every bit as zealot as the worst tent revival preacher. Some things in modern culture seem to becoming more like religions everyday.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Religion is highly instrumental at making a name for yourself and promoting whatever desire your whim shall command. Having rejected this, how do you plan on accomplishing that eventually? Don't you think its rather unwise to reject religion just because you dont agree with their spiritual teaching and ethics?
    Well you seem to be so interested in brainwashing people. Why don't YOU just become a televangelist. And least then I would'nt have to listen to your shit, I could just change the channel.

  8. #28
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    ... I couldn't care less about religion.
    I agree. I'm ENFP and not very much in organized religion even if I'm Lutheran at the moment. But it's mostly only a habit.

    How can Christianity be anyway the only right religion because it has been around only for couple of thousand years and it has been the main religion in my country for only few hundred years?

    The religion stuff doesn't really convince me because I need a proof of it and haven't got any until this day. So, I'm not a believer but I'm not a disbeliever either. What would you call me then?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    so like, what are you saying... cause im not going to read all of that.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    My dear sir, are you telling me that you, an ENFP, do not much care to be admired by everyone?
    And why exactly would I need religion to accomplish this?

    That you do not much care to easily get what you want from people at the snap of a finger?
    Nope, don't really care about that.

    That you are not excited by the idea of having your audience believe everything you say without knowing what you're actually saying?
    Hahaha, I can do this just fine without religion.

    That you are not interested in having others think of you to be as magnanimous as Yahweh himself, yet let yourself behave like the Pagan Gods? (Cough Bill Clinton, he was of your breed).
    LOL

    That said, doesnt religion seem enticing to you still?
    Being true to myself is far more important than any of this. Maybe you should be looking at ESPs.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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