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  1. #21
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    PS-Curious Feeling i wanted to offer an apology as the title was phrased somewhat generically but you were actually making an individual request for info. Sorry to become theoretical on your thread! I always suggest to folks who feel pulled between letters to read up on the descriptions and just take what is of value and not get caught up on the details given it is a bit of a shoddy psuedo-science anyways

    For me-as an illustrative case to represent how one might use Beebe functions-I have had moments where I suspect I have used Ni and even Fe and perhaps even Ti. They can be expressed in extremely negative ways-under stress and great pain.

    I have also felt Ni and even bits of Fe used in more healthy ways, but I have little control over these moments and they feel VERY different from the normal way I would approach the world, Fe especially. However the Ni can be very useful and complementary-but is very limited to certain aspects of Ni and is nothing like the super power Ni that an Ni dom displays. The Ni moments have been around since I was 25 or so, the Fe moments only in the last year at 33.

    I think there is great value in appreciating that even if we can tap into those less used functions-we will never use them the way a native user would-thus a person very skilled in using a function not normally ours can give us a worldview and information that we cannot see innately. They slice and dice the world at different angles and have built up different histories that can be extremely insightful-if we can admit the legitimacy of those perspectives and also admit forgiveness of others for not having insight into those perspectives and values that are innately ours-thus my interest in the topic.

    So my posts above were more directed at the generic theory and not your specific example as I suspect it is by far best to look at expression of beebe functions in a very individual case by case way, so my apologies for generalizations applied.

  2. #22
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Well, what was the point of posting all those cog process tests - giving me a headache?
    The cog process test has some underlying assumptions built in. Surely you right-clicked on the test and looked at the source code. The processes are not being tested independently. For example, an Ni score can be adjusted up or down depending on how you answer an Se+Fi question. The results of the test can be misleading.

    I always score highest on Ni, but does that really mean I'm a Dom Ni type? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? I came to this forum to discuss theory, not rubber stamp people with labels that are more than likely inaccurate to begin with.

    I'll bring up Katharine D. Myers since her last name should be familiar to everyone.
    The tert function can be expressed in either attitude. It's not written in stone.
    Therefore an INFJ using Te isn't "unusual."
    Furthermore, many type professionals believe the tert to be the most flexible of all so one could actually flex Te-Ti interchangeably.

    In the booklet, Introduction to Type® Dynamics and Development
    Exploring the Next Level of Type
    , Myers writes:



    That's why all the type diagrams in her booklet don't specify a direction for the tert function. Myers hierarchy for INFJ:

    1. Ni
    2. Fe
    3. Te or Ti
    4. Se


    If anyone is interested in buying the booklet, they can do so here:
    http://www.capt.org/catalog/itmdtl.h...m=30030&bhcp=1

    People can also view many of the inside pages at that link, as well.

    Edit: I forgot to tell you - I agree with your quoted statement.
    So it isn't set in stone that the tert. function is solely Ti for INFJs. Thanks for this information, definitely insightful.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Then the question would be whether CF understands Te the way a Te-user understands Te. That's where the disconnect comes from: Te and Fe "emulate" each other very well, because both "act J." But at the core, there is an understanding - at the Ni-level, for example - of how things "really work."

    INTJs can be polite, but they don't understand how to deal with people on the fly, intuitively understanding what is needed. Symmetry would indicate than an INFJ can understand logistics and logistical reasoning, but would have more difficulty dealing with logistics on the fly, intuitively understanding how the logistical entities work.

    Using Ni with Ti works, of course, but it is a very different dynamic: it solves logic (even logistical) problems, but it is far more methodical, and not "seat of the pants."
    Indeed, this distinction is what I was looking for. For me, in a scientific/lab setting, Te works on the fly, and in an academic setting, the same thing happens. Whenever I am interacting with other people, instinctively Fe comes up, and if I am coming up with a logical explanation for something, I have to actually stop and think about the process, and the inner workings of what I am explaining (Ti). The weird thing is though, I tend to understand how a system works in general, and can note a general trend that is exhibited by a system, but I am not that great in explaining it as concisely as a true NiTe oriented person does. I tend to be more rambling and insert complex jargon that makes sense to me, but is usually over the other person's head. More of an Ni-Ti process. My Te is good, works well to support my theories, and is an excellent way to gather quantitative evidence to make a final decision, but my instinctive response tends to be more Fe oriented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    PS-Curious Feeling i wanted to offer an apology as the title was phrased somewhat generically but you were actually making an individual request for info. Sorry to become theoretical on your thread! I always suggest to folks who feel pulled between letters to read up on the descriptions and just take what is of value and not get caught up on the details given it is a bit of a shoddy psuedo-science anyways

    For me-as an illustrative case to represent how one might use Beebe functions-I have had moments where I suspect I have used Ni and even Fe and perhaps even Ti. They can be expressed in extremely negative ways-under stress and great pain.

    I have also felt Ni and even bits of Fe used in more healthy ways, but I have little control over these moments and they feel VERY different from the normal way I would approach the world, Fe especially. However the Ni can be very useful and complementary-but is very limited to certain aspects of Ni and is nothing like the super power Ni that an Ni dom displays. The Ni moments have been around since I was 25 or so, the Fe moments only in the last year at 33.

    I think there is great value in appreciating that even if we can tap into those less used functions-we will never use them the way a native user would-thus a person very skilled in using a function not normally ours can give us a worldview and information that we cannot see innately. They slice and dice the world at different angles and have built up different histories that can be extremely insightful-if we can admit the legitimacy of those perspectives and also admit forgiveness of others for not having insight into those perspectives and values that are innately ours-thus my interest in the topic.

    So my posts above were more directed at the generic theory and not your specific example as I suspect it is by far best to look at expression of beebe functions in a very individual case by case way, so my apologies for generalizations applied.
    The generic is what I was looking for, because it helps me to understand the difference between how an INTJ applies Te, vs. how an INFJ applies Te. With that knowledge, I can definitely see the difference, and it's becoming clearer to me that my Te has been honed in and is a learned trait acquired through considerable amount of exposure to science, and upbringing with a parent that has aux Te; thus my natural instinct is more Ni-Fe oriented.
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    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  3. #23
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I don't see it surprising given what you had gone through as a child. From my experiences and other INFJs I've talked to on the forum, we tend to branch off from the typical Dom Ni, Aux Fe.

    I know I score very highly on Ne and Ti on that cognitive test (so much that it says I ought to be an ENTP). There's also some here with high Fi or Ti... I think you're the first I met with strong Te, but I don't see why you couldn't be an INFJ with strong Te.

    People are also not static. I notice my test score varies depending on what I've been focusing on. Like 4 years back when I just started learning about MBTI, I was bang on Ni Fe. After I gone through my undergrad, I became a lot more Ti focused... and at the end of my grad degree and now I score significantly higher on Ne. So experience and practice probably affects usage quite a bit.

    As to Fe mimicking Te or Ti mimicking Te. What I noticed is that Fe reasoning is completely different than Te reasoning. From what I hear how INTJs make decisions, it's just completely different than how I would do it using a combination of Ni Ti and Fe. The process I mean and not the final decision. You can also use that as a guide.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    So it isn't set in stone that the tert. function is solely Ti for INFJs. Thanks for this information, definitely insightful.
    Yeah, I found it very interesting that Myers said that.

    Thanks for the info, Jag.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Indeed, this distinction is what I was looking for. For me, in a scientific/lab setting, Te works on the fly, and in an academic setting, the same thing happens. Whenever I am interacting with other people, instinctively Fe comes up, and if I am coming up with a logical explanation for something, I have to actually stop and think about the process, and the inner workings of what I am explaining (Ti). The weird thing is though, I tend to understand how a system works in general, and can note a general trend that is exhibited by a system, but I am not that great in explaining it as concisely as a true NiTe oriented person does. I tend to be more rambling and insert complex jargon that makes sense to me, but is usually over the other person's head. More of an Ni-Ti process. My Te is good, works well to support my theories, and is an excellent way to gather quantitative evidence to make a final decision, but my instinctive response tends to be more Fe oriented.
    Wait, so this confused me a little (tbh, I haven't read most of the thread).

    The bolded sounded like you were saying that you might just be using Ni+Ti instead of Te...

    (sorry if I missed something that was already written... but could you clarify?)

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    ...it's becoming clearer to me that my Te has been honed in and is a learned trait acquired through considerable amount of exposure to science, and upbringing with a parent that has aux Te...
    I wrote a response a few hours ago that I didn't completely finish that said exactly this.

    No need to post it anymore, I guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    ...thus my natural instinct is more Ni-Fe oriented.
    That's what you seem like to me, based on your comments in that other thread a couple weeks ago.

    I'd love some clarification to what I asked above, though, cuz I'm wondering now whether you're really just an INFJ who's using Ni+Ti in a lab setting (which is certainly possible), or whether you're really using Te...

  5. #25
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I don't see it surprising given what you had gone through as a child. From my experiences and other INFJs I've talked to on the forum, we tend to branch off from the typical Dom Ni, Aux Fe.

    I know I score very highly on Ne and Ti on that cognitive test (so much that it says I ought to be an ENTP). There's also some here with high Fi or Ti... I think you're the first I met with strong Te, but I don't see why you couldn't be an INFJ with strong Te.

    People are also not static. I notice my test score varies depending on what I've been focusing on. Like 4 years back when I just started learning about MBTI, I was bang on Ni Fe. After I gone through my undergrad, I became a lot more Ti focused... and at the end of my grad degree and now I score significantly higher on Ne. So experience and practice probably affects usage quite a bit.

    As to Fe mimicking Te or Ti mimicking Te. What I noticed is that Fe reasoning is completely different than Te reasoning. From what I hear how INTJs make decisions, it's just completely different than how I would do it using a combination of Ni Ti and Fe. The process I mean and not the final decision. You can also use that as a guide.
    Thank you.

    Yes, I do find quite a bit of fluctuations with the judging functions on a day to day basis. It flows much like a fluid matrix.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




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