Most stubborn type

[SillySapienne]

I just realized that my ESTJ sister is incredibly stubborn, but I know how to crack her code/shell to make her see the light.

 

[Riva]

xSFJs are pretty stubborn. it's hard to prove a point or worse teach them something.

soooooooooooo slow.....

so they just refuse to understand it.

 

[Lethe]

I just realized that my ESTJ sister is incredibly stubborn, but I know how to crack her code/shell to make her see the light.

For me, ESTPs can easily crack my unwavering stance, because they have a knack for finding a better way of doing what I intended to do. And INFPs -- they always patiently remind me to add the "human" factor into my decisions.

 

[527468]

Well when you put it like that, it's usually the secondary function that has its limits. Such as "No this is what this is used for, you can't do it like this. I'm not inclined to do it that way," like how INxJs might insist that things go according to the likely plan, and not all of the alternatives they can think up. They're still learning how to cope with the world and protecting their secondary function because its kind of a weakness compared to the primary function. I see the primary function in someone as more evident to their lifestyle, as though one is oblivious to how they think, rather than making a conscious decision to enforce one's ideas to fit into their lifestyle. An S function for instance, fits better in the P lifestyle than the J lifestyle. So ISFJ might have a hard time trying to adapt and acquiesce to sudden changes in plan even though they want to in the long run. I see this generally differently for ESFJs, even though they are generally polite about it.

 

[poppy]

xSFJs are pretty stubborn. it's hard to prove a point or worse teach them something.

soooooooooooo slow.....

so they just refuse to understand it.

In my experience SFJs will be pretty quick to acquiesce on the surface, but they never actually change their opinion, and when you aren't looking they continue on merrily as though the exchange never happened.

 

[SillySapienne]

My mother is an ESFJ, and she often times cannot be reasoned with.

So, instead I appeal to her emotions, and voila, CaptainChick gets her way!

 

[poppy]

My mother is an ESFJ, and she often times cannot be reasoned with.

So, instead I appeal to her emotions, and voila, CaptainChick gets her way!

+1, it took me years to realize I needed to speak their language

 

[kyuuei]

I can only draw from experience, so my vote is based on my personal experience, instead of what I theoretically would think to be stubborn.

I voted ENTP, with special leanings toward younger ENTPs..

 

[Lethe]

+1, it took me years to realize I needed to speak their language

And the problem is... I still don't know how to speak their language! Not in the way those with Fe can.

 

[SillySapienne]

+1, it took me years to realize I needed to speak their language

That is why I don't think ESJs are that stubborn.

They want something done their way, so you act accordingly, i.e. you do things your way with them thinking they somehow got their way, leaving all parties happy!

 

[onemoretime]

I can only draw from experience, so my vote is based on my personal experience, instead of what I theoretically would think to be stubborn.

I voted ENTP, with special leanings toward younger ENTPs..

We're only stubborn until you take the time to explain the logic backing up your assertion, not to mention withstand the deconstruction we're going to do in the process.

Once that's done, hell, we'll go along with anything.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

In my experience ISTP are the most stubborn type.

TJ are stubborn in enforcing and following rules, that's why they are easily perceived as stubborn. These rules can be changed and TJ can adopt them.

ISTPs make their own rules and judgments and aren't interested in enforcing them and that's why they don't seem stubborn. But there is no external way of changing an ISTP's prejudices. From my experience you can't change ISTP's prejudices even if presented with flawless arguments. They can only change by internal processes.

I'm totally agree with you. Although, I'm clearly a very stubborn person who only values his personal approach. I'don't know if we are THE most stubborn type, but we are probaby one of the most stubborn. I would say that INTJ and ISTP are the most stubborns types. By the way, I'm suprised that so few people have voted ISTP.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Your stubbornness manifests itself with your introverted function.

xSxJ - stubborn about "the way things are done", conservative in the traditional sense
xNxJ - stubborn about their conclusions, gullible without sufficient evidence
xxFP - stubborn about their personal beliefs, overly self-righteous
xxTP - stubborn about logic, trouble assuaging emotions over a question of fact

I'm agree, but extroverted functions can lead to stubbornness too.

 

[527468]

I can definitely see a stubborn person as someone who has problems utilizing their secondary function, which is why the secondary function is basically seen as more obstinate, negativist, and limiting to me than the primary. So xNTP I see how if one were to be stubborn it would be with logic, reason, etc, more than intuition or feeling, but its mostly a difference between Te and Ti. INTP seeing more of the flawed system, ENTP seeing more of the bad common sense.

 

[Liminality]

Any J types, really. Ni is stubborn about its own vision and conceptions. Si is stubborn about rules and highly anal-retentive.

I've an INTJ friend who I'm pretty sure is a mixture of Ni Te Si and Fi .

Actually I forgot my dad...ISTJs, no contest.

 

[SillySapienne]

I can definitely see a stubborn person as someone who has problems utilizing their secondary function, which is why the secondary function is basically seen as more obstinate, negativist, and limiting to me than the primary.

My secondary function is definitely obstinate, but negativist?

No way!!!

 

[527468]

Sorry CaptainChick, I wasn't aware we were talking about butterflies.

 

[SillySapienne]

Sorry CaptainChick, I wasn't aware we were talking about butterflies.

Excuse me?!!??

If you want to talk about swallowtails, and painted ladies, I'm down.

But I was talking about my secondary function, which also happens to be your tertiary function, Fi.

 

[Liminality]

I can definitely see a stubborn person as someone who has problems utilizing their secondary function, which is why the secondary function is basically seen as more obstinate, negativist, and limiting to me than the primary.

You say that, you must've not seen the capabilities of an overzelous Ne <_<...

 

[527468]

Well now were just arguing two ways here! All I'm saying is that I can see how it would be more of a secondary function thing, because a P might have more problems with J things, and visa versa. Not that someone has to be stubborn or does not have to be stubborn. It's all highly theoretical, tut tut.