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Most stubborn type

Which one is it?


  • Total voters
    89

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
I know you might not want to hear this from me because its not directly related to MBTI terminology as you know it, but I think most bouts of stubbornness comes from Si dominance/valuing. So in my eyes that would be mainly the ISxP, ESxJ, and INxJ. I am referring to my distinct impression of MBTI types though. Definitely. Si types for me are confident, mostly fond of normalcy (keeping things stable and predictable) basically going by "what works" for them and not wanting to change from it if there is no need to, with strong internal willpower, and they can basically be rather obstinate.
 

ayoitsStepho

Twerking & Lurking
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
4,838
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
im pretty laid back with ideas, but if you cross my values im not gonna move at all. My values are set in stone and they cannot be changed. I'm sure most people would then think im close minded but really once i KNOW what is right for me then im unable to change. i mean, just like anyone else would set the claws out if their values were being messed with, thats me.
 

Triglav

Permabanned
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
79
MBTI Type
INTP
I'm INTP and I'm definately stubborn when talking about religion or politics, and equally stubborn defending something I did. I'm usually the one who wins debates of "whose fault was it".
 

NewEra

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
3,104
MBTI Type
I
As an ISTJ, I'm gonna have to say my own type. And I don't necessarily look at it like a bad thing, a little stubbornness is good because it shows you believe in your ideas. I know I for one have been called very stubborn and arrogant. ISTJs have a leg up on INTJs because of our dominant Si, for sure.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
INTJ. ISTJ tends rather to be rigids, but not really stubborn. I think it's diferent. If the boss of the ISTJ says to him to stop to be stubborn, the ISTJ stops. The INTJ does'nt.
 

527468

deleted
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Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
INTJ. ISTJ tends rather to be rigids, but not really stubborn. I think it's diferent. If the boss of the ISTJ says to him to stop to be stubborn, the ISTJ stops. The INTJ does'nt.

This is what I think too. I think of the system of MBTI different though, that INTJ actually uses Si more than the Se ISTJ who is more adaptive to people and their opinions, both still by stereotype structured and rigid Js.
 

StrappingYoungLad

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
199
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w8
In my experience ISTP are the most stubborn type.

TJ are stubborn in enforcing and following rules, that's why they are easily perceived as stubborn. These rules can be changed and TJ can adopt them.

ISTPs make their own rules and judgments and aren't interested in enforcing them and that's why they don't seem stubborn. But there is no external way of changing an ISTP's prejudices. From my experience you can't change ISTP's prejudices even if presented with flawless arguments. They can only change by internal processes.
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Oh i will give as good as i get usually. If there is no room to move in any given situation, then i won't budge either. Stalemate (although i don't like those situations)

There are types out there i know that will give me a run for my money though.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
In my experience ISTP are the most stubborn type.

ISTPs make their own rules and judgments and aren't interested in enforcing them and that's why they don't seem stubborn. But there is no external way of changing an ISTP's prejudices. From my experience you can't change ISTP's prejudices even if presented with flawless arguments. They can only change by internal processes.
:yes:
 

Bubbles

See Right Through Me
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
ESFJ. Saslou you're wonderful, but too many of your kind have proven this to me. Toooo maaaany. :(
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
In my experience ISTP are the most stubborn type.

TJ are stubborn in enforcing and following rules, that's why they are easily perceived as stubborn. These rules can be changed and TJ can adopt them.

ISTPs make their own rules and judgments and aren't interested in enforcing them and that's why they don't seem stubborn. But there is no external way of changing an ISTP's prejudices. From my experience you can't change ISTP's prejudices even if presented with flawless arguments. They can only change by internal processes.

Yeah, I notice this of ISxPs, ESxJs, and INxJs that they mostly change by internal process, and make up their own rules, etc. They're not really J judgments though, it's based on "Si" and how things have worked for them in the past, and are less willing to change from what they're confident in if they see no argument to do so, and they like stability.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Your stubbornness manifests itself with your introverted function.

xSxJ - stubborn about "the way things are done", conservative in the traditional sense
xNxJ - stubborn about their conclusions, gullible without sufficient evidence
xxFP - stubborn about their personal beliefs, overly self-righteous
xxTP - stubborn about logic, trouble assuaging emotions over a question of fact
 

poppy

triple nerd score
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,215
MBTI Type
intj
Enneagram
5
I voted ESTJ because I refuse to admit that IXTJs are the most stubborn type :D

Anyway, yeah, Onemoretime's got it.
 

Saslou

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
ESFJ
ESFJ. Saslou you're wonderful, but too many of your kind have proven this to me. Toooo maaaany. :(

Awww. That's OK. Come meet my mum and step sister who both recently tested as ESFJ (Or maybe not. lol). Now they can both out stubborn me. *sigh and shudders*
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
Your stubbornness manifests itself with your introverted function.

xSxJ - stubborn about "the way things are done", conservative in the traditional sense

ISxP can be quite stubborn about the way things are done. I don't really see ISxJs as all that stubborn.

xxFP - stubborn about their personal beliefs, overly self-righteous
xxTP - stubborn about logic, trouble assuaging emotions over a question of fact

Some of them are, but some of them are just as greatly open-minded too when it comes to what's logical or what their values are. I think it can depend in circumstance upon any function.
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What the... INTJ's aren't half as stubborn as ESxJ's, especially thinkers.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
As an expansion, where the conflicts come from:

xSxJ-xxTP - will never agree over how to do something on the surface, as the previous is concerned with sticking with what works, such as the xSTJ's insistence on procedure and the xSFJ's insistence on tradition, while the latter is preoccupied with finding a way to get something over with quickly and with a minimum of energy expense. xSTPs generally convince others to do the unwanted task for them or find a technicality, while xNTPs will try to develop a better mouse trap, so to speak. The former find the latter "lazy" or "disrespectful", while the latter find the former "boring" or "hard-headed".

xSxJ-xxFP - conflict when established procedures or traditions contradict the other's personal values. The xSxJ will not understand why the xxFP is making such a hue and cry over seemingly nothing, while the xxFP will never understand why they don't know how offensive and heartless the xSxJ is being.

xSxJ-xNxJ - relatively little conflict, but the former will find the latter's conclusions to be "weird" and their beliefs "silly", while the latter will find the former's traditions to be fake and pointless.

xxTP-xxFP - the former can't figure out why the latter takes everything so damn personally. The latter can't figure out why the former has to be so brutal in the way that person does things.

xxTP-xNxJ - the former is sloppy, lazy, careless and imprecise. The latter constantly misses the big picture, always missing the forest for the trees.

xxFP -xNxJ - The former considers the latter to be unethical or untrustworthy. The latter considers the former to be overly needy and plaintive.

In conlusion,

xSxJs - unthinking sticks in the mud, they must have loved you in the SS
xNxJs - will believe anything you tell them or they come up with
xxFPs - no one gives a damn about your opinion, so stop constantly bringing it up
xxTPs - abrasive as all hell, pisses at least 3 people off a day, and doesn't give a shit
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
ISxP can be quite stubborn about the way things are done. I don't really see ISxJs as all that stubborn.

Try to explain context to an ISTJ. They're fundamentally unconcerned with it, and will remain stubborn about wanting details when the big picture is much more pertinent.

Tell an ISFJ that you don't really feel like having Christmas dinner with that person's family this year, since they live so far away and we're so busy anyway. Trust me, they'll get stubborn really quickly

ISTP is more stubborn about the way something works, that is, its inner logic. ISFP gets stubborn when a shift in procedure contravenes a personal belief, no matter how trivial it may seem.

Some of them are, but some of them are just as greatly open-minded too when it comes to what's logical or what their values are. I think it can depend in circumstance upon any function.

True, but that's contextual again. An xxFP can be very open-minded, if they've internalized openmindedness as one of their core beliefs (xNFPs do this more readily given Ne's curiosity). However, no matter what, if a situation violates those personal beliefs, they will get stubborn about it. Given the openminded person above, aren't they usually the people who are the most intolerant of intolerance?

Likewise, xxTPs can be open to different frames of logic (once again, xNTPs do this more readily). However, as soon as that logical procession is broken, they won't stop until the situation is dealt with. It's why the ESTP is the "quarterback" type, able to see discrepancies in defenses other people can't; the ISTP the "mechanic" type, able to figure out what's not functioning in a complex system based on the limited information available and what logically follows; so on and so forth (we wax poetic way too much on what INTPs and ENTPs can do well)
 

Lethe

Obsession.
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
801
MBTI Type
iNtJ
Enneagram
152
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
As an expansion, where the conflicts come from:

I agree with Onemoretime. Since what we determine as the "most" or the "least" is defined by the conditions of our environment, placing a type under the right ones will reveal their stubborn side. Everyone here is correct in their assumptions, depending on the version of stubbornness that is measured from.

Overall, I think Js take the cake for having the most stubborn moments. FJs for social matters; TJs for the work-related ones.
 

swordpath

New member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
10,547
MBTI Type
ISTx
Enneagram
5w6
I have an INTJ friend who is 'holy cow stubborn'.
 
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