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Thread: Ne/Ni Conflicts

  1. #61
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    All I'm going to say is that uumlau is emphatically a Ni-dom!!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    That "shifting away" is probably what annoys Ni about Ne. You know, that, and Ne doms just being so unpredictable at times, especially when very young.
    On the other side, Ni users suffer from the syndrome known as "beating the dead horse" which annoys Ne users and many others alike.

  3. #63
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    On the other side, Ni users suffer from the syndrome known as "beating the dead horse" which annoys Ne users and many others alike.
    I was decidedly NOT beating a dead horse. I was applying CPR.


  4. #64
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    EDIT: To give credit where credit is due, much of my observations I make here were originally noted by Orobas, and I've gotten a very good feel for where these Ni/Si issues come into play due to several long, in-person conversations with her. Since she is Ne/Fi/Te/Si, I share the Te/Fi but not the Ne/Si, so where we have issues sharing ideas, it appears when I keep on presenting hypotheses that seem to "tear down" her rather fixed Fi/Si notion of how things work, and rebuild something brand new in its place. The compromise between the two perspectives is aided by noting that the new construction is entirely temporary, unless it is actually better.
    ^^ This made me want to go insane!!!!!!!! The first time he redefined Fe in mid discussion and then said well we never really had a good definition anyways, then promptly changed a whole theoretical approach....I was filled with eye popping frustration!!!!!!!!!! WHAT??? If the definition isnt exact-what the hell are we actually talking about then? We actually had several convos were I was totally getting bent because this sort of thing kept happening. I pin things down with Si then hop with Ne. I think he pins things around an Se focal point then swaps whole rule sets in and out with Ni. (Thats freaky shit btw) So he will take my Si pin points and then pull them out from under me and replace them-if it is an FiSi point-I get a little prickly.

    I suspect it is not obvious because most of the time people dont get to "see" Ni in action-only the resulting Te judgment. Once I understood that no definition, rule or law was sacred and all were subject to temporary swapping and shifting-I chilled out. It required me to relax my Si understandings-and allow for the swapping to occur, as well as detach any emo FiSi I have to particular ideas.

    However with INFJs and ENFPs-we both have value based attachments to our mutual perspectives. So if I lock down their perspective with Si or they Ni context swap my Si perspective, you would expect to see escalating value based conflicts.

  5. #65
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    ^^ This made me want to go insane!!!!!!!! The first time he redefined Fe in mid discussion and then said well we never really had a good definition anyways, then promptly changed a whole theoretical approach....I was filled with eye popping frustration!!!!!!!!!! WHAT??? If the definition isnt exact-what the hell are we actually talking about then? We actually had several convos were I was totally getting bent because this sort of thing kept happening. I pin things down with Si then hop with Ne. I think he pins things around an Se focal point then swaps whole rule sets in and out with Ni. (Thats freaky shit btw) So he will take my Si pin points and then pull them out from under me and replace them-if it is an FiSi point-I get a little prickly.

    I suspect it is not obvious because most of the time people dont get to "see" Ni in action-only the resulting Te judgment. Once I understood that no definition, rule or law was sacred and all were subject to temporary swapping and shifting-I chilled out. It required me to relax my Si understandings-and allow for the swapping to occur, as well as detach any emo FiSi I have to particular ideas.

    However with INFJs and ENFPs-we both have value based attachments to our mutual perspectives. So if I lock down their perspective with Si or they Ni context swap my Si perspective, you would expect to see escalating value based conflicts.
    So he kept pulling the ol' Ni double-shifting with you instead of replacing, adding or removing components to create a new perspective.

  6. #66
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Below is a thread I started about this diff in enfps-intjs with a few quotes. Note the requirement that I detach my values...now consider if the other party is an INFJ who also shares a value attachment.


    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ck-o-love.html

    Quote Originally Posted by orobas waiting for login to be fixed View Post
    The INTJ-ENFP match works out well mostly!! (I love my INTJ so much) Perhaps the ISTJ:ENFP match might be even easier but would lack the abstract intuitive conversations.

    The Te/Fi bridge simplifies communication and value judgment. There may not always be agreement, but the shared language and frame prevents confusion during discussion of the disagreement.

    The biggest challenge is the Ni:Si difference. The ENFP's Si locks the INTJ into one, isolated, overly detailed Ni context, trapping them, leaving them feeling as though the Ne dom thinks they are always right. The INTJ keeps trying to displace core Si generalized rules with changing Ni contexts, thus giving the impression of ignoring previously agreed upon definitions or well understood Ne patterns. This leaves the Ne dom with no set Si foundation from which to Ne expand upon and perceiving the Ni dom as being dismissive.

    On the positive side, the Ni Dom can pass new universal Ni truths which can replace old Si generalized truths, yielding whole new Ne playgrounds to explore. The Ne dom can pass the Ni dom Ne-isms which morph into new Ni contexts to view the problem through.

    Word has it that the honesty, integrity, innocence, the direct, straightforward, open communication, the touching and holding, the commitment, the simultaneous ownership of responsibility and individual emotions, all make up for the perceptional differences.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by orobas waiting for login to be reset View Post
    Slightly more detail:
    Before getting in a relationship with an INTJ, I assumed it would be fairly trouble free based upon interactions I had in the past with INTJ friends. It retrospect that was premature. I was in a LTR with an ISTP for 8 years, so I had already learned how to give an introvert time and space alone and how to be less sensitive to intentional or unintentional sarcasm or logical critique. I/E vs T/F diffs had been worked through and learned, so these were not an issue.

    The Te and Fi make things really simple (as compared to trying to date an Fe/Ti person). It drastically simplifies emotional and logical communication with no misunderstandings about motive or intent arising. Of course the same can be said for two XNTJs dating as well.

    Emotional communication is actually very simple and easy. It just flows. I suspect we bring out the innocent child inside of INTJs because we just dump Fi at them via Ne.

    It can become harder when trying to have logical Te discussions, especially if the subject is one in which you both have a very strong interest and knowledge base due to the diffs in N and S.

    Things I have had to learn:
    1. Give the INTJ space to use Ni without Ne jumping off topic. This means being quiet at times and following the Ni.

    2. Give the INTJ space to use Ni, even if it conflicts with my Si-hardbound version of the idea. This can be really hard on topics I am very well versed in. Learning about Ni context shifting was very valuable, as it first it seemed like all of my past knowledge had been disregarded in one swoop. It kind of was, but just for the time being...

    3. The INTJ likes to go out and do physical activities-Se. I like to stay home and read-Si. Because I love him, I try and do the things that he enjoys, even if they wouldnt be my first choice in hobbies.

    4. I have to detach emotionally from my ideas and recognize that discussions are not arguments. This is a bit tricky but doable. It can feel very stressful trying to debate an INTJ, as you guys can appear angstful or demanding on the surface which I will read as frustration or anger. I also have to ignore how VERY dismissive Te can sound on the surface, as even when you guys brainstorm, you are still being highly assertive via Te quality assurance tactics.

    These are a few areas of learned growth, but because NeFi is innately like a chameleon, once we understand how to adapt, it isnt very hard to do so.

  7. #67
    Glycerine
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    Or you can pull the lovely Ni go to: "but it all depends on perspective".
    P.S. I am a REALLY strong Ni user so I am poking fun at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    On the other side, Ni users suffer from the syndrome known as "beating the dead horse" which annoys Ne users and many others alike.
    I see it less as beating a dead horse than being too sure of rightness (not looking at other possibilities) or the stereotypical negative Ni paranoia that bugs me the most. SimWorld once told me that Ne and Se are more similar and Ni and Si are more similar, even though they're S/N functions, and I disagree when it comes to the positives - usually I feel a mental connect or understanding with Ns I don't feel as often with Ss (though I can feel it with S sometimes, not saying I can't) - but on the negatives, yes I can see how the negs of Ne/Se and the negs of Ni/Si are more similar than they are to one another.

  9. #69
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    There's definitely some truth in that but what I had in mind was more the going into nitpicky aspects and entering tunnel vision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    There's definitely some truth in that but what I had in mind was more the going into nitpicky aspects and entering tunnel vision.
    Oh that's what I was thinking of. Maybe we're just wording it differently.

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