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Thread: Ne/Ni Conflicts

  1. #191
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    ^ Si.



    (It wasn't me said that, my Ni dared me.)
    Even you do.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    MOVING THESE GIANT FLESH FLIPPERS WITH THE FIVE POINTY BITS AT THE END, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, IT'S SO COOL
    FAIL - like we even have a clue what GIANT FLESH FLIPPERS or FIVE POINTY BITS are


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    DID YOU PUT SOMETHING IN MY DRINK, MAN IT'S SO GREAT, CAN I HAVE SOME MORE?!?!?!!!!

  3. #193
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Even you do.
    I have solipsism on my side. One doesn't stick a pin so much as fall off the surfboard.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #194
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The thought here is something like this:

    in my humble experience--AND IN THE BOOKS OF OTHER PEOPLE'S AUTHORITY--extroverted sensing isn't used randomly. One shall presume the same is true of extroverted intuition. Over time these people exercising these perception functions will explore many new things. They will prefer as yet uncharted paths. And they'll have if not a natural talent then certainly a natural inclination for doing such. And to aid their exploration they'll chose familiar jumping off points. This is the sense in which extroverted perception isn't random. To set up a novel experience well the person will fix some conditions.

    Now, seemingly somewhat superficially, we can say this is the action of unconscious introverted perception. It's not extroverted perception doing that, it's inferior or tertiary introverted perception chiming in with some unconscious mandate to mess with the person.

    So either lower level function play a very much more significant role in cognition than easily apparent or upper level cognition is more complex than you thought.

    OR

    there's some more substantial relationship between opposite ends of the dichotomies than admitted. To have Se is to have Ni and to have Ne is to have Si.

    Thus [mumble mumble] objectivity. It's obvious.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #195
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Extroverted perception over time is different from extroverted perception per se. I could be wrong here, but it seems that extroverted perception per se just chews up experience and literally has no tool for determining one perception as different from another. Extroverted perception over time however chews on novelty and for the most part eschews repetition. Doesn't it?


    So.... how?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #196
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    there's some more substantial relationship between opposite ends of the dichotomies than admitted. To have Se is to have Ni and to have Ne is to have Si.

    Thus [mumble mumble] objectivity. It's obvious.
    That was very close to a theory I came up with, a long time ago. Read with caution, though, as I was still very Ni-Ti at this point, and hadn't developed enough Fe to make my ideas more digestible or understandable to most other people (except a few INTPs).

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-insights.html

    I hope it helps you develop your theory further.

  7. #197
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That was very close to a theory I came up with, a long time ago. Read with caution, though, as I was still very Ni-Ti at this point, and hadn't developed enough Fe to make my ideas more digestible or understandable to most other people (except a few INTPs).

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-insights.html

    I hope it helps you develop your theory further.
    Interesting observations. Orobas and I have been playing with ideas along these lines for a while, now, and other MBTI gurus on the net have, as well. In particular, she observed that certain "Ni" things I did offended her, and it didn't make sense that they'd offend Ne or Fi or Te: it had to be inferior Si. It had to be the attitude that you don't "just change the rules on the fly." Conversely, from my perspective, she'd hang on to particular assumptions long past I thought they were merited. It's not a harsh conflict, it's not difficult to resolve at all, but it pops up in terms of having very different approaches to ideas.

    Oro has some power point slides she made comparing the Ne/Si and Ni/Se approaches, with remarkably good commentary. I know she intended to post them at some point, but I don't know if she ever did.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #198
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    An introverted perceiving function draws information away form the external world. It also synthesizes perceptions. But lets suppose these are not two different processes. The act of abstracting away from environmental stimuli is the same as abstracting further on inner stimuli. This makes sense. It also provides a clear image of how introverted perception can become moribund and why from time to time the person indulging in it will move away from that activity and seek some kind of renewal via direct external stimulation.

    What then of extroverted perception functions? An extroverted perception function avoids abstracting away from external stimuli. In fact, such a function cleaves to external stimuli, registering what is and avoiding any indirectness. Yet this cleaving to requires some kind of checking of the stimulus to make sure it is real. This is the function being objective. If we were supposing a two step process, the first step is to perceive and the second is to re-perceive to make sure of objectivity. But were it in fact not a two-step process but an iterated single step then, he says, jumping a few steps ahead, we can see the extroverted perceiver's emphasis on novelty. You don't check to make sure of objectivity by re-checking the same damn perception! You check new perceptions and cleave to them as the checks. The new perception is always the closer to reality so it's always the more important!

    Panties.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #199
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Ah, here are the power points Orobas made to which I was referring. The main concept is that for Ne/Si, the Ne ideas are visible, but seem to be disconnected ideas. However, the ideas are "Si-connected" internally to a fairly rigid matrix of ideas. For Ni/Se, the Se "concrete examples" seem entirely unrelated, but they're connected to a "fuzzy whirl" of Ni abstractions internally, that is trying to internally model what one sees in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I have no idea if any of this is true or not, but I do enjoy doodling....sorry they are power point slides....

    Here are the Ne-Si ones first....





    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    here are the Ni-Se ones...this could be quite off and is totally guessing..







    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas
    An Ni dom in totality:
    (...this is all very complicated... wtf? ...if this was in my head I'd be introverted too...)
    seconded.

    The libido seems to drive towards a unified, universal Ni rule that explains everything - a search for one underlying rule/explanation. Ni universal.
    actually, this is fascinating. Ne doms connect to find The Explanation. when all becomes one, one is all.

    Ni doms boil down to find The Explanation? when one is all, all becomes one?

    that would make a hell of a lot of sense in terms of understanding N as one function and Ne and Ni as attitudes.



    i'm going to attempt to train myself in Ni-Se context switching. we'll see how this pans out.

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