Ne/Ni Conflicts

[ReflecTcelfeR]

^ Makes sense. Judging functions have to decide what to believe in and how to believe in it (Minute differences mean so much and people tend to think their way is correct initially). The perceiving functions just collect it differently. You can't talk perceiving alone, in my opinion, always a combination.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm always in these "versus" threads realizing what an ENFP I am. I don't know why I ever question my type.

 

[INTP]

Ne goes for breadth, Ni goes for depth.

i dont think its this simple, human is a whole and these are just parts of the whole.

i agree that i usually see NTJs shortsighted, and that statement is a perfect example of that. Ni users use Se, Ne users use Si and i think this is what contributes to these conflicts. but i think the most important one is Je vs Ji.

i get in arguments with my INTJ friend all the time, but on the other hand its fun to own him . for example last time we argued about analog vs digital distortion pedal on guitar. he didnt understand that there can be any difference, because digital can be programmed to do what ever you want to the sound, and refused to understand that digital pedals doesent work the same way as if you would process the signal on a computer manually, because the digital pedal can be programmed to do what ever you want.. i explained in every possible way to him that there is a difference in them and why they sound different. he ofc went to look wikipedia about audio signal processing, and found out that analog signal is more lossy and gets more noise than digital, (what he refused to understand that good analog pedal on guitar doesent have this noise or loss of sound and that its just theoretical and doesent apply to this) so he started saying that digital distortion pedal is superior to analog in every aspect.
after about 2 hours i managed him to understand that they actually sound different due to different cut off or high/low frequencies. but i made a mistake of saying that analog sounds more pleasing to ear due to different type of processing of the sound and he thinks its just an opinion because some people prefer digital distortion. i didnt want to waste the next week explaining to him why brains reacts differently to this kind of difference of cutting of frequencies..

funny thing with this was that my INTJ friend looked for factual information of signal processing so much and only concentrated on facts said by professionals, that he didnt realize that what he was looking was irrelevant to the topic, and refused to believe when i said it, because the facts that he was looking at was on his favor of the argument(or so it looked to him).

and about that Ni going in depth and Ne to breadth. Ti/Fi goes in depth of things, so Ne users also goes in depth of things. so because these two types go in depth with different functions, they both still go in depth of things.

 

[Virtual ghost]

As I said in another threads. Yeap I have noticed that this differance can easily lead into conflict.
We generally like each other but often we don't see the things in a similar way.
So on regular basis that ends with them calling me a closed minded jerk.

 

[Totenkindly]

Get into a relationship with an INTP and have a fight or two. It's like nothing you've ever experienced before. Imagine Godzilla arguing in Japanese about how best to roast coffee while you're talking about feelings!

I'm sorry, I know I'm never right before my morning cup of joe.

yes, I see that as a much bigger of a problem than Fe-Fi for me. I have noticed this initial clash between me and ENFPs. If I don't explain myself to the last detail, the Ne user thinks that I am completely dense w/o any sense of humor. I will expand upon it later.

I don't think that's necessarily about Ne/Ni, because both N's have wacky sense of humor. (At that point, for example, we're talking ENFPs using tertiary Te, most likely, bumping into your Ni, which sees a particular vision of the future intuitively that you haven't yet explained how you got there.)

 

[xisnotx]

I have a friend who I believe is an intj. He might be istj, but intj seems more likely.

He doesn't drink. He says he never will. He doesn't have any moral objection to drinking he just thinks that he doesn't need or want it. According to him the cons of drinking outweigh the pros. To me this is borderline crazy. How can he be so sure that drinking "isn't for him" if he's never tried it? I can understand not wanting to try it if he thought it would harm him but he admits that drinking one night in his life would have virtually no effect on it. He thinks he already knows what alcohol would do to him because he's been around people who are under the influence. To make a decision like that based on what I think is "incomplete data" and be as committed to this decision as he is strikes me extremely myopic.

I've told him it's my goal to get him drunk at least once. He didn't seem amused.

 

[Eric B]

I'm always in these "versus" threads realizing what an ENFP I am. I don't know why I ever question my type.

Wouldn't that be the type's well known need for "uniqueness"? (can't fit into the "boxes") Never could believe you were INFJ.

For an ENFP, Ni is "backup" to the dominant Ne, so it might be somewhat strong, if that is what you have been getting thrown off by.

 

[highlander]

But overall I get along with other Ns, not matter if they have Ne or Ni...

I find they complement each other, as a Ne-dom with a Ni-dom sister I feel we can add different perspectives in terms of "possibilities" and neither is short-sighted.

This is exactly how I generally feel. It's why I started the thread. The conflict confused/surprised me.

It really depends on how Ne and Ni interacts with the other processes that each have. When negative, the Ne-Fe and Ni-Fi combination is crazy. When positive, it's still crazy but in a very good way.

Can you explain these things a bit further? Not sure what you mean.

I somewhat clash a little w/ Ne because I am the only Ni user in my immediate family so there is the occasional rift here and there. For example, I will have things all planned out in my head and my mom or someone will bring up different things I should consider and will change the plan which usually leads to the same outcome. Many times, I am thinking "DUH, I ALREADY THOUGHT OF THAT...."

"Pitseleh, you should do this because...." Me: If I truly cared, I would have thought to do that.

On the flipside, I will try to force one course of action and the Ne user puts me on a better path.

So, the one point of conflict that I HAVE experienced is the tension between considering more options and deciding on a course of action. At some point, I want to decide and move forward. I sometimes become frustrated with what I perceive as a lack of decisiveness in the person who prefers Ne.

i agree that i usually see NTJs shortsighted, and that statement is a perfect example of that. Ni users use Se, Ne users use Si and i think this is what contributes to these conflicts. but i think the most important one is Je vs Ji.

and about that Ni going in depth and Ne to breadth. Ti/Fi goes in depth of things, so Ne users also goes in depth of things. so because these two types go in depth with different functions, they both still go in depth of things.

That's a good point about people who prefer one or the other going into depth in different ways. I've seen this with INTPs and the amazing complexity that they seem to be able to comprehend (Ti). Ni still goes into more depth than Ne though as a function.

Can you explain the Je vs Ji and Si vs Se a bit more? I can see this as being key to all of this.

i get in arguments with my INTJ friend all the time, but on the other hand its fun to own him . for example last time we argued about analog vs digital distortion pedal on guitar. he didnt understand that there can be any difference, because digital can be programmed to do what ever you want to the sound, and refused to understand that digital pedals doesent work the same way as if you would process the signal on a computer manually, because the digital pedal can be programmed to do what ever you want.. i explained in every possible way to him that there is a difference in them and why they sound different. he ofc went to look wikipedia about audio signal processing, and found out that analog signal is more lossy and gets more noise than digital, (what he refused to understand that good analog pedal on guitar doesent have this noise or loss of sound and that its just theoretical and doesent apply to this) so he started saying that digital distortion pedal is superior to analog in every aspect.
after about 2 hours i managed him to understand that they actually sound different due to different cut off or high/low frequencies. but i made a mistake of saying that analog sounds more pleasing to ear due to different type of processing of the sound and he thinks its just an opinion because some people prefer digital distortion. i didnt want to waste the next week explaining to him why brains reacts differently to this kind of difference of cutting of frequencies..

funny thing with this was that my INTJ friend looked for factual information of signal processing so much and only concentrated on facts said by professionals, that he didnt realize that what he was looking was irrelevant to the topic, and refused to believe when i said it, because the facts that he was looking at was on his favor of the argument(or so it looked to him).

This example seems to highlight aux Ne (in the INTP) and inferior Se (in the INTJ). One person is operating normally and the other is in the grip of the inferior. If I'm not interpreting it incorrectly, then the implication is that someone can view a person who is in the grip of the inferior as being myopic. That's not hard to understand. It could be said of any type though.

 

[rav3n]

I'm sorry, I know I'm never right before my morning cup of joe.

*note to self, always carry fast acting caffeine tablets or injectibles*

Can you explain these things a bit further? Not sure what you mean.

Situation negative: Ne trips all over the place gathering random pieces of information, sometimes applicable, other times so very, very NOT! Add in Ti attempting to create a framework from these random pieces of information. And finally wonky Fe which appears to insist that you align with it. Stir this combination on one side and not in the standard process order and you get something out of left field particularly if the framework is wrong, even though you with focused and directed Te, Ni and Fi, are attempting to address the issues at hand. We're not talking about deliberate evasiveness although that happens too but a serious miss match of discussion points.

Situation positive: The similarities of the above combination of processes make them easy to follow most of the time and go places that both wouldn't normally even think of going. In retrospect, I aligned with Ne-Fe and modified it. Wow, this is an interesting insight for me!

 

[MacGuffin]

I've never really had a problem with Ni. There's some miscommunication from time to time, but Ni doesn't bother me, even if I don't really understand it.

Just another datapoint to play with. /Ne

 

[highlander]

Situation negative: Ne trips all over the place gathering random pieces of information, sometimes applicable, other times so very, very NOT! Add in Ti attempting to create a framework from these random pieces of information. And finally wonky Fe which appears to insist that you align with it. Stir this combination on one side and not in the standard process order and you get something out of left field particularly if the framework is wrong, even though you with focused and directed Te, Ni and Fi, are attempting to address the issues at hand. We're not talking about deliberate evasiveness although that happens too but a serious miss match of discussion points.

Situation positive: The similarities of the above combination of processes make them easy to follow most of the time and go places that both wouldn't normally even think of going. In retrospect, I aligned with Ne-Fe and modified it. Wow, this is an interesting insight for me!

That's a good explanation.

 

[rav3n]

That's a good explanation.

Thanks. Articulating it in threads like this helps me to understand it more. The "a-ha" moments happen on TypeC quite a bit.

 

[Uytuun]

He doesn't drink. He says he never will. He doesn't have any moral objection to drinking he just thinks that he doesn't need or want it. According to him the cons of drinking outweigh the pros. To me this is borderline crazy. How can he be so sure that drinking "isn't for him" if he's never tried it? I can understand not wanting to try it if he thought it would harm him but he admits that drinking one night in his life would have virtually no effect on it. He thinks he already knows what alcohol would do to him because he's been around people who are under the influence. To make a decision like that based on what I think is "incomplete data" and be as committed to this decision as he is strikes me extremely myopic.

Lol, we're not that logical a type (but what you describe isn't Ni in isolation). Logic has its own blindness.

I've told him it's my goal to get him drunk at least once. He didn't seem amused

I think this might be something else - your intention to try and manipulate him into something he's decided not to do might grate on Fi.

I think Ne is cool. I tend to have good mutual opening of perception fields with Ne users.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think Ne is cool. I tend to have good mutual opening of perception fields with Ne users.

Agreed and verified.

 

[MacGuffin]

Ne, Ni, Si, Se

I don't have any problem with these functions. They are the perceiving functions after all.

It's those judging functions that really annoy.

 

[Totenkindly]

Ne, Ni, Si, Se
I don't have any problem with these functions. They are the perceiving functions after all.
It's those judging functions that really annoy.

Q: "Who judges the Judgers?"
A: Macguffin, that's who.

 

[MacGuffin]

Q: "Who judges the Judgers?"
A: Macguffin, that's who.

I should get paid.

 

[rav3n]

Sorry but I'm kind of trapped in this thought process so I'm going to articulate this more. Ignore if it's not interesting or what I'm articulating is just a Well Duh! moment for you.

Consider Ni. It shifts perspectives. Consider Ne. It's random information gathering. So the normal course of interactions when positive, is that Ni follows Ne around by shifting perspectives. But when it's a negative interaction, Ni gets over-ruled by Te and Fi so it gets locked down to one perspective. This is when it feels like NTPs hit walls with NTJs since it's expecting Ni to follow it around. When NTPs feel this resistance, their Fe goes wonky and insists that there should be alignment. Stubbornness can be applied to both individuals at this point.

 

[Sniffles]

Ne tends to get on my nerves at times.

 

[Uytuun]

Ni gets over-ruled by Te and Fi so it gets locked down to one perspective.

Yes, we suck when we are bound.

(no pun intended...mostly)