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Thread: Ne/Ni Conflicts

  1. #121
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    To me, the biggest Ne/Ni conflict is like this:

    Ni: there are possible problems ahead! Prepare for them!
    Ne: who says these problems will occur and not other ones? If there are any problems, we'll solve them on the spot. Now, what about *insert fun thing*?

    I see the introverted perceiving functions as being of a more "judger" character, in the sense that they will help you to plan things; while the extraverted perceiving functions are the improvising on the spot ones.
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  2. #122
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    So what is Ne anyway?

    Here's where I'm at with Ni...

    First off, Ni is a process. It begins with possibility. One speculates on answers to questions like "What could this mean?" And formally speaking the answers could be anything at all. Since the questioning is conducted away from environmental roots, nothing objective stands in the way. "This" could be a rainbow, it could be yo momma, it could be the key to all things, it could be a shoe. But this is neither informative nor interesting. One isn't in the middle of the process just to kill time. One does look for conceptual richness in one's "possible" answer to the original question. It's more interesting.

    So now we're past the beginning, into the middle. It began with a possibility. It continues with revision of that possibility. One asks, "Where could this fit?" Fitting a possibility is the examination of the concepts that make it. Testing them. One assumes that other functions are making an appearance here. But speculation is a feature of this testing too. Speculation to destruction. Pushing the boundaries of the conception until they fail. And that is what the final concept is made of, speculation bounded by contradiction.

    Where and how did this conceptual construction take place? Against what was it really built? Where was the creativity? In the inner world there is what seems to be limitation. Seed knowledge is sometimes a rarity. Outside information is sometimes a necessity. One should open up and let a few things in, sometimes.

    But only sometimes.


    So, what is Ne? One assumes...

    It begins with the world. One assumes it is a process of conceptualization too. One assumes the form of the world as it is encountered in the moment prompts recall or introduction of other forms. Details of other, initially unconnected, situations are introduced and connections made. The purpose is to reinvent and re-figure. To re-envision. Changing the referents of the current situation so they recall other situations gives higher meaning to the mundane. More content is granted. One assumes it applies not just to situations but to events and details within situations. Such events may include hearing another person say something, seeing them do something, reading something... thinking something. The creative aspects lies in how far away and how fast the connections can be made. The purpose is understanding. Reconfiguring what happens as something else accretes if not meaning then at least content.

    The process is objective. The connections may be wild and formally far distant from the source, but that they can be made is a product of recognition of inherent pattern that can't be changed.



    Or is it something else?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  3. #123
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Hmm, discussion such as these much me wonder if I'm ENFP.
    Kalach, your Ne definition seems right, sort of. I'm not sure that the underlying framework is a permenant fixture, because that too can be adjusted and tweaked with new information. Ne to me has evolutionary aspects to it...or maybe I just misunderstood you completely, It really is truly flexiable, it's not until it's sifted intially by si that it gains any form and then it's refined by Fi/Ti. It's not always a quick process either, some times little bits of information sit on the edge of consciouness, for months, some times years, before it's fed through the thought processing machine. It's very liquid process.
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  4. #124
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    My problem with 'seeing' the Ni perspective is often that they go off scouting a rabbit hole and I'm like..wait..which one of em did you dive into?!! I see about 100 rabbit holes..and you just assume that I'll know which one you're in coz you see only one (or only one relevant one), and I'm left going wtf! And start digging up all possible rabbit holes going 'Marco!' hoping to god I can hear your 'Polo!'

    Once I get where you're going though, I have no problem following your lead and seeing what you're seeing. It sometimes can take ages to find you though and I really don't always have that energy/patience

    Learn to explain why this rabbit hole and properly indicate the rabbit hole you end up jumping into. Thank you ever so much
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  5. #125
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Would that there could be some actual description of intuition extroverting. Then I wouldn't have to make up my own. And I did wonder in particular if "inherent pattern that can't be changed" would get questioned.

    For the sake of, oh, I don't know, novelty, let us make a distinction between how a function succeeds at doing what it does and how it presents. How it presents seems to be easy to describe: "OMG, it's fulla starz intuitions." But how does (a person in the throes of) it do what (s/he/)it does? I'm going to go ahead and assume that objectivity is an important characteristic, indeed is a key mechanism.

    Exactly what pattern a person abstracts from (what just happened in) the environment is, to some degree, up to them, their experience, and their knowledge, but it would seem that the pattern has structure. And that structure can be "seen" repeated in abstractions from other times/places/books/thoughts/whatever. There are objective points of congruence. Thus the meaning of the current situation/event/thing amplifies. But what point was chosen for attention, what pattern, and indeed what aspect of what pattern... that varies, it changes, and develops. Evolves, if you will. And probably the evolution depends on changes in the situation. Which changes can (and will) be prompted by the seeker of insight herself.

    Or some damn thing like that.




    And booyah, "frameworks" is lobbed right back into the Ne court, though perhaps several months too late.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #126
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    My problem with 'seeing' the Ni perspective is often that they go off scouting a rabbit hole and I'm like..wait..which one of em did you dive into?!! I see about 100 rabbit holes..and you just assume that I'll know which one you're in coz you see only one (or only one relevant one), and I'm left going wtf! And start digging up all possible rabbit holes going 'Marco!' hoping to god I can hear your 'Polo!'

    Once I get where you're going though, I have no problem following your lead and seeing what you're seeing. It sometimes can take ages to find you though and I really don't always have that energy/patience

    Learn to explain why this rabbit hole and properly indicate the rabbit hole you end up jumping into. Thank you ever so much
    Ne sees lots of different rabbit holes all over the place. Ni sees one rabbit hole with a lot of different descriptions.

    Thus Ni is probably diving into a rabbit hole right under your nose that you hadn't spotted, because your assumptions don't allow it to exist.

    Had I mentioned that Alice in Wonderland and Though the Looking Glass are very "Ni" stories?

    For example:
    Quote Originally Posted by Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass
    'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #127
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Thus Ni is probably diving into a rabbit hole right under your nose that you hadn't spotted, because your assumptions don't allow it to exist.
    I'm such a picky bastard regarding Ni descriptions, but that one I can definitely get on board with.
    It's excellent.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Ne sees lots of different rabbit holes all over the place. Ni sees one rabbit hole with a lot of different descriptions.

    Thus Ni is probably diving into a rabbit hole right under your nose that you hadn't spotted, because your assumptions don't allow it to exist.

    Had I mentioned that Alice in Wonderland and Though the Looking Glass are very "Ni" stories?

    For example:
    Yes, I noticed this applies heavily to Ni users and interacting with ENFP types.

  9. #129
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Yes, I noticed this applies heavily to Ni users and interacting with ENFP types.
    Explain!


    And Uumlau, the least you can do is take me with you down that rabbit hole, instead of assuming I'll find it on my own *sulks*
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  10. #130
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    Intuition is intuition regardless of attitude; you just won't find Ni leaving little flag poles at the rabbit holes as Ne does. Of course, we do leave our Te forms open to others.

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