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Thread: NiFi Loop

  1. #51
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    ^i believe looping is equal development of primary and tertiary, with auxiliary not playing it's proper role of balancing extroverted and introverted functions. thus the reason it's damaging on perception, experience and personality.

    i don't know that it would have permanent effects. once you balance yourself out with the auxiliary, you began to feel balanced.

    i was stuck in the Fi/Ni loop, and once i focused my attention more on Se, i felt considerably happier and more sane.
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  2. #52

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    Yeah I dunno, I feel like I really want to look at them as two different things. I suppose this is because I see so many ENFPs, especially the males, or ones in science with well developed Te. I also see a ton of INFJs with well developed Ti. ENTPs with well developed Fe are almost the norm. The folks dont seem broken or unhappy-but you can see at times they are torn by those two judging functions. It is such a common thing that the MBTI step II designates mixed leadership styles as making up about 10-15% of the population with ENTPs and ENFPs in the lead statistically.

    But at the same time that can go overboard. As an ENFP it feels "burnt" inside and very bitter. That to me is what my Ne-Te loop feels like...

  3. #53
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Yeah I dunno, I feel like I really want to look at them as two different things. I suppose this is because I see so many ENFPs, especially the males, or ones in science with well developed Te. I also see a ton of INFJs with well developed Ti. ENTPs with well developed Fe are almost the norm. The folks dont seem broken or unhappy-but you can see at times they are torn by those two judging functions. It is such a common thing that the MBTI step II designates mixed leadership styles as making up about 10-15% of the population with ENTPs and ENFPs in the lead statistically.

    But at the same time that can go overboard. As an ENFP it feels "burnt" inside and very bitter. That to me is what my Ne-Te loop feels like...
    i don't think a well developed tertiary automatically equals looping or being unbalanced. rather, the dependence on two functions focused in one direction (extroverted or introverted) versus balance causes looping.... allowing the aux to diminish or weaken.

    one can still have a strong tertiary, but have an equally strong aux along with the primary. humans definitely do develop their other cognitive functions as they get older and mature, so having a well developed tertiary is fine... and actually very healthy. it's just when there's too much focus on introversion or too much focus on extroversion that one becomes unbalanced.
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  4. #54
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i don't know if this will be true for you, Metaphor, but when i go into Ne-Te heavy processing, pinning down Fi seems to be helpful, and when i edge near Fi-Si heavy processing, engaging Ne seems to be the most helpful. i think the important thing in both of these cases is to engage the opposite of the function that i'm lost in - obviously switching I/E, but also switching J/P in correlation with whichever is stronger in the duo (J in the case of Ne-Te because P is stronger; P in the case of Fi-Si because J is stronger). perhaps leaning on Te would be helpful for you - to me, in these situations, i feel like i sort of have to "suspend" the way i want to think about the situation at the time, and just do what seems undesirable but healthier.

    that is, of course, assuming that you would prefer to end the "loop". but perhaps different cognitive functioning can bring new insights...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    Third, I think it should be mentioned that an Ni+Fi (or NiFi) loop should be distinguished from a Fi+Ni (or FiNi) loop (and the same would go for all the other possible loop combinations). One would expect the two loops to be rather similar, but due to the fact that the more dominant process in one is different than the more dominant process in the other (and the same obviously goes for the less dominant processes in each), one might also reasonably expect there to be some kind of difference between the two. I have not spent enough time exploring this idea, but I do think it holds some water.
    agreed... i tend to think whichever function is stronger in the pair tends to be the driving force, whereas the weaker function is like an amp giving feedback. but it's not always helpful feedback, because it's not moderated by both internal and external information. this is kind of off the top of my head, but i'm thinking that the difference would be something like: while a Ne-Te process is driven by the motivation of creating more possibilities via getting things done, a Te-Ne process will be driven by the motivation of getting things done via creating more possibilities. The issue with both loops is there's no internal regulation - in Ne-Te there's no Fi there to alert you when generating new possibilities isn't a very healthy response to a certain situation, and in Te-Ne there's no Fi there to alert you when organizing and directing isn't a very healthy action in a certain situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas
    Do you guys think looping is the same thing as overdevelopment or equal development of the aux-tert functions?
    no... but i think equal development of the tert or underdevelopment of the aux could make you slip into dom-tert looping more easily. (edit - exactly what IndyAnnaJoan said)

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Yes, I do feel lost, especially being a J. Looking for meaning and not finding it, since there are no truths. Don't know how you Ps stand this!
    it's not as groundless and shifting as it sounds, because we're strongly anchored internally. if you're a fan of functional roles, it might be helpful to consider that Fi is your tertiary / relief role, whereas it's my auxiliary / supportive role, and those are nearly opposite in terms of their character, with the auxiliary being a "parent" and the tertiary being a "child". essentially your Hero (dominant) is acting without guidance, receiving feedback from the creative Child, and acting without guidance again. normally the Child is helpful because it's a very different way of looking at things and it pairs easily with your dom and does not conflict with your aux, because it's applied to a different realm, and thus it "relieves" your Hero and Supportive Parent from some of their burdens (my tert usually seems to manifest in a "simplifying" role) but without touching base with the aux/Parent too, the dom/Hero doesn't get any input from the opposite E/I realm. so basically a dom-tert loop is naturally going to feel like it lacks steady ground, because you're missing the input of the guiding parent to slow down your dom when it's getting ahead of itself.

  5. #55

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    I don't believe in dominant/tertiary looping. How can you both have a fixed and a malleable internal definition at the same time?

    In the INTJ case what you are seeing is surely Fi-Se: the internal definition becomes fixed to protect the view of self and the feeling of control over the environment evaporates to dissociates from Te to Se.

    Hence why similar grumpy/angry and occasionally ecstatic behaviour can be encountered as either a demoting of Ni-Te or as a consequence of excessive Fi-Se.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I don't believe in dominant/tertiary looping. How can you both have a fixed and a malleable internal definition at the same time?

    In the INTJ case what you are seeing is surely Fi-Se: the internal definition becomes fixed to protect the view of self and the feeling of control over the environment evaporates to dissociates from Te to Se.

    Hence why similar grumpy/angry and occasionally ecstatic behaviour can be encountered as either a demoting of Ni-Te or as a consequence of excessive Fi-Se.
    Could you have developed each of the functions to some level of maturity-the fixed definition-but then due to external stressors, resort to the loop in a protective way-the malleable version? As an enfp, Fi seems to be a feedback loop that receives Ne input. Too much externally routed pain from others sort of burns out the Fi emapthic capabilities-nothing I can do will resolve the hurt of others, but I am still trapped feeling their pain-thus in a protective manner I shut down Fi and resort to Te. It is accompanied by a cute little Fi-Si loop of "change is EVIL" typically. I dunno what the NTJ equiv would be....

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Could you have developed each of the functions to some level of maturity-the fixed definition-but then due to external stressors, resort to the loop in a protective way-the malleable version? As an enfp, Fi seems to be a feedback loop that receives Ne input. Too much externally routed pain from others sort of burns out the Fi emapthic capabilities-nothing I can do will resolve the hurt of others, but I am still trapped feeling their pain-thus in a protective manner I shut down Fi and resort to Te. It is accompanied by a cute little Fi-Si loop of "change is EVIL" typically. I dunno what the NTJ equiv would be....
    Isn't this merely the temporary position until Te-Si takes hold and the ENFP locks themselves in a secluded/isolated room until they have evaluated all of the information available to feed back to the more normal Fi internal definition?

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Isn't this merely the temporary position until Te-Si takes hold and the ENFP locks themselves in a secluded/isolated room until they have evaluated all of the information available to feed back to the more normal Fi internal definition?
    This may be true...let me think on it.

  9. #59

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    Loss of reality and functionality. Borderline paranoid schizophrenic. Stagnation. Anyone see the Jared Loughner's youtube videos? Yeah, not good.

  10. #60
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Automator View Post
    Loss of reality and functionality. Borderline paranoid schizophrenic. Stagnation. Anyone see the Jared Loughner's youtube videos? Yeah, not good.
    There is a problem with mapping mental illness, especially severe mental illness, to any particular personality type or set of Jungian functions. Yes, there might be a credible similarity between healthy individuals of whatever type/functions with mild tendencies in such regards and the typical behaviors of those with the mental illness, but that's only begging the question: is the mental illness an extreme example of that type/functionality, OR does the mental illness cause people of whatever type/functionality to behave that way, for reasons having little to do with typology?

    A normal (healthy) Ni-dom (INxJ) is recognized as such due to the remarkable way in which one taps into the unconscious and skillfully finds new and useful ideas that don't usually occur to those of other types. Another individual who comes up with insane ideas/motivations that demonstrate a weak grasp of reality might say random things that resemble tapping into one's unconscious, but the severe lack of skill in so doing would normally suggest that the individual isn't an Ni-dom.

    There might be a connection between Ni (and/or Fi) and such extreme behavior, but it is not an area of typology that lends itself to serious study.

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