Dear Fe User,

[PeaceBaby]

Wonderful metaphor in this thread about the chess game. (And I liked the amber lights one too.)

With the disclaimer of speaking for myself (not all Fi users): I do sense the game, that there's always a game; one that's in continual play and changing all the time. I have felt it since I was very young and it makes me sad sometimes, and sometimes angry, but mostly I find it unsettling. Why unsettling? First, because it does seem like a "game" - it's a game about power and who has it, who doesn't, how to maximize one's advantage, and minimize the risk of failure. Second, like most games, there are winners and losers. And third, there's always a sense of the "tally" - you can feel the people in your life who keep score on you. I know who they are. I know what I have to do to keep myself in the "black".

Fi-users may take longer to learn how the "game" works, but most figure out the rules as one goes along in life and realize that one must play too in order to successfully accomplish personal goals. However, when one does play the game (and I should add here, either the Te OR Fe game) it feels false, fake, phony; it feels like a game because it's not about who the Fi-user is, it's about using a system to the utmost advantage; myself, sometimes when I feel inwardly frustrated I think, "Why do I have to play this game in order to get accomplished what needs to get done here?" Do Fe-users get tired of having to play it too?

Now, myself, I am coming to realize I live a giant conundrum as an Fi-user who is an (enneagram) so-dom. The group is important to me, and I have watched how people interact with each other my whole life to try to learn all the "rules". I cannot even articulate this quite the way I want to so I apologize for that. But following all the Fe rules is very exhausting for me, but I have to in order to fulfill my personal value system of being a good person who cares about others. I am not sure how to reconcile all that.

I don't see some of the Fe users being so willing to admit they cant see my approach, but rather they deny its validity.

@ bold: This is how I feel as well. It's why in some of these threads I have so vigorously tried to explain my vantage point. I don't need someone to tell me Fe is real, because I know it is, I see it every day, I have studied it very well, understand in many ways the motivations and tools of operation. (DISCLAIMER: That's not to say I know everything about Fe, and truly the forum has opened new insights to me that were previously evasive.)

For some inexplicable reason, sometimes I just feel a need to be understood in this area, and receive some acknowledgement that I do bring value to the table.

 

[Thalassa]

Wonderful metaphor in this thread about the chess game.

With the disclaimer of speaking for myself (not all Fi users): I do sense the game, that there's always a game; one that's in continual play and changing all the time. I have felt it since I was very young and it makes me sad sometimes, and sometimes angry, but mostly I find it unsettling. Why unsettling? First, because it does seem like a "game" - it's a game about power and who has it, who doesn't, how to maximize one's advantage, and minimize the risk of failure. Second, like most games, there are winners and losers. And third, there's always a sense of the "tally" - you can feel the people in your life who keep score on you. I know who they are. I know what I have to do to keep myself in the "black".

Fi-users may take longer to learn how the "game" works, but most figure out the rules as one goes along in life and realize that one must play too in order to successfully accomplish personal goals. However, when one does play the game (and I should add here, either the Te OR Fe game) it feels false, fake, phony; it feels like a game because it's not about who the Fi-user is, it's about using a system to the utmost advantage; myself, sometimes when I feel inwardly frustrated I think, "Why do I have to play this game in order to get accomplished what needs to get done here?" Do Fe-users get tired of having to play it too?

Now, myself, I am coming to realize I live a giant conundrum as an Fi-user who is an (enneagram) so-dom. The group is important to me, and I have watched how people interact with each other my whole life to try to learn all the "rules". I cannot even articulate this quite the way I want to so I apologize for that. But following all the Fe rules is very exhausting for me, but I have to in order to fulfill my personal value system of being a good person who cares about others. I am not sure how to reconcile all that.




@ bold: This is how I feel as well. It's why in some of these threads I have so vigorously tried to explain my vantage point. I don't need someone to tell me Fe is real, because I know it is, I see it every day, I have studied it very well, understand in many ways the motivations and tools of operation. (DISCLAIMER: That's not to say I know everything about Fe, and truly the forum has opened new insights to me that were previously evasive.)

For some inexplicable reason, sometimes I just feel a need to be understood in this area, and receive some acknowledgement that I do bring value to the table.

It must be weirdest of all to be IxxP types and feel that ALL systems are foreign (because you either have Fe or Te inferior). On the other hand, I can see how others could get annoyed with IxxP types when they refuse to conform to any structure AT ALL. I can see it from both sides.

I'm not an ExxJ, though, so I've never felt any need IRL to go around being an "enforcer" of either Te or Fe for the collective whole. I'm also sx/sp/so...which means I'm social last, oddly enough, though I've known since I was a child how I should behave in various situations, how to get hired, how to make these people happy or impress these people...I've always been aware of who was popular and who wasn't...but because of not being ExxJ or so-dom, I never felt a need to go around micro-managing others.

I only go into managing mode when I see others as a serious value problem to whatever system I believe in...like my roommate who hoards dirty dishes and talks when other people are sleeping and thinks everything that happens to HER is an emergency (just unacceptably rude, I don't care how nice she is otherwise)...or like in the case of my family, I become very annoyed with undisciplined children and people who neglect children or let them run wild because I see the bigger picture that those children are going to become adults and problems to society someday, and I see "society" as a cohesive working whole.

Whether this is because of Te pragmatism, or Fe social rules, I don't know, but I do know that systems work, though I don't personally feel a need to go around "organizing" others because I find that draining.

It must be weird to be Fi dom and so first. It sounds tiring.

 

[Randomnity]

It must be weirdest of all to be IxxP types and feel that ALL systems are foreign (because you either have Fe or Te inferior). On the other hand, I can see how others could get annoyed with IxxP types when they refuse to conform to any structure AT ALL. I can see it from both sides.

I don't mind systems, I prefer them actually when they're reasonably flexible and make sense, or if it doesn't particularly make a difference whether I use them or not. Conforming to structure because it's structure is another matter.

 

[Southern Kross]

It must be weird to be Fi dom and so first. It sounds tiring.

So very tiring.

All it does is make you deeply and keenly aware of your social ineptitude.

 

[highlander]

With the disclaimer of speaking for myself (not all Fi users): I do sense the game, that there's always a game; one that's in continual play and changing all the time. I have felt it since I was very young and it makes me sad sometimes, and sometimes angry, but mostly I find it unsettling. Why unsettling? First, because it does seem like a "game" - it's a game about power and who has it, who doesn't, how to maximize one's advantage, and minimize the risk of failure. Second, like most games, there are winners and losers. And third, there's always a sense of the "tally" - you can feel the people in your life who keep score on you. I know who they are. I know what I have to do to keep myself in the "black".

Fi-users may take longer to learn how the "game" works, but most figure out the rules as one goes along in life and realize that one must play too in order to successfully accomplish personal goals. However, when one does play the game (and I should add here, either the Te OR Fe game) it feels false, fake, phony; it feels like a game because it's not about who the Fi-user is, it's about using a system to the utmost advantage; myself, sometimes when I feel inwardly frustrated I think, "Why do I have to play this game in order to get accomplished what needs to get done here?" Do Fe-users get tired of having to play it too?

These points resonate pretty strongly - I feel this way too sometimes. It seems like Te and Fe simply accept the world for the way it is and are oriented towards effecting practical results within it. It might be sad because it doesn't fit our idealistic view of the way the world should be but it is reality.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

These points resonate pretty strongly - I feel this way too sometimes. It seems like Te and Fe simply accept the world for the way it is and are oriented towards effecting practical results within it. It might be sad because it doesn't fit our idealistic view of the way the world should be but it is reality.

I wonder if that gets tiring - to always have to effect the world towards practical results.

 

[Thalassa]

These points resonate pretty strongly - I feel this way too sometimes. It seems like Te and Fe simply accept the world for the way it is and are oriented towards effecting practical results within it. It might be sad because it doesn't fit our idealistic view of the way the world should be but it is reality.

In this case I'm presuming you mean Si/Te and Si/Fe, and producing practical results I would think comes easily and naturally to them...this is also why they're half the human population.

 

[miss fortune]

*sigh* why is it so rare that I can wander into a thread on types and not find my own type maligned? Really people... it's not that simple :rolli:

I work my ass off every day helping out other people with their problems... I fix things for people- not because I have to, not because society tells me to, but because it's the nice thing to do... I do too fucking much in the way of being helpful to be called the root of all evil

I have no beef with Fi users in real life... one's snoring on the other end of the couch from me at the moment for goodness sake! This forum can have the weirdest polarizing effect EVER at times

 

[highlander]

I wonder if that gets tiring - to always have to effect the world towards practical results.

Do you disagree with what I'm saying? It's just a hypothesis.

 

[Thalassa]

Do you disagree with what I'm saying? It's just a hypothesis.

I disagree somewhat with what you're saying. Te and Fe are just practical *parts* of reality, they aren't the entirety of reality. Ti and Fi can be used to discover the way things work and underlying principles.

If we always just took things at face value, the human race would not be as advanced as it is.

 

[highlander]

*sigh* why is it so rare that I can wander into a thread on types and not find my own type maligned? Really people... it's not that simple :rolli:

I work my ass off every day helping out other people with their problems... I fix things for people- not because I have to, not because society tells me to, but because it's the nice thing to do... I do too fucking much in the way of being helpful to be called the root of all evil

I have no beef with Fi users in real life... one's snoring on the other end of the couch from me at the moment for goodness sake! This forum can have the weirdest polarizing effect EVER at times

I guess it started out as an emotionally driven rant of sorts but don't think there is an intent to malign any type. It is more about discussing differences. By recognizing and confronting differences, don't we come to better understanding amongst each other? Isn't that what type is all about? It seems like most of the discussion has been in the search of mutual understanding of those differences. I'm not sure how that is polarizing.

 

[Poki]

I guess it started out as an emotionally driven rant of sorts but don't think there is an intent to malign any type. It is more about discussing differences. By recognizing and confronting differences, don't we come to better understanding amongst each other? Isn't that what type is all about? It seems like most of the discussion has been in the search of mutual understanding of those differences. I'm not sure how that is polarizing.

Just think of the "frankenstein" a INTJ mad scientist and a INFJ social chess player could create. It would be like the evil iRobots or something.

 

[miss fortune]

gee... I must have clicked in on the wrong few pages then

I can think of a zillion more fun things to bitch about than basic building blocks of personalities... like inept customer service reps... or heating costs

 

[Thalassa]

gee... I must have clicked in on the wrong few pages then

I can think of a zillion more fun things to bitch about than basic building blocks of personalities... like inept customer service reps... or heating costs

I blame Fi for inept customer service reps and Te for heating costs.

 

[highlander]

Just think of the "frankenstein" a INTJ mad scientist and a INFJ social chess player could create. It would be like the evil iRobots or something.

I must admit, the thought does have appeal

 

[Poki]

I must admit, the thought does have appeal

Sorry, the INFJ wouldnt allow it. Sucks to have Fe sometimes

 

[Thalassa]

Sorry, the INFJ wouldnt allow it. Sucks to have Fe sometimes

Pfft shows how much you know. Hitler may have been INFJ. Either that or ENFJ.

 

[cascadeco]

I guess it started out as an emotionally driven rant of sorts but don't think there is an intent to malign any type. It is more about discussing differences. By recognizing and confronting differences, don't we come to better understanding amongst each other? Isn't that what type is all about? It seems like most of the discussion has been in the search of mutual understanding of those differences. I'm not sure how that is polarizing.

I agree that recognizing and confronting differences, and bridging that communication gap, is important and is also the main reason for mbti being useful in providing a framework for those differences.

I think what happens though, when trying to turn it into more than it is (i.e. using it to account for every difference between people), is the misapplication of functions. I think this is the main divide when it comes to these sorts of discussions. There are those who *appear* (note I'm saying 'appear', it might not in fact be what they're doing or proposing) to want to apply functions to every single human behavior as well as use them to explain all of the differences/communication gaps. Then there are those who argue against this - want to remove functions from the explanation of ALL differences, etc, and tend to see functions as somewhat limiting when it comes to explaining differences - at least, in real-world applications. I definitely see myself more in the second group.

 

[highlander]

I blame Fi for inept customer service reps and Te for heating costs.

I blame supply and demand.

 

[Poki]

Pfft shows how much you know. Hitler may have been INFJ. Either that or ENFJ.

I have no clue what he was...from a purely logical point of view...it was a huge waste of labor. No logic, he had to be F