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Dear Fe User,

Jaguar

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Yeah Jag, from what I know of highlander I don't think that question was meant as a challenge so much as just asking for more information. Being that this is primarily a typology site, it's a reasonable thing to ask. I realize that many people here don't actually believe in MBTI or enneagram or anything else. It's just helpful to better understand what brought them to those conclusions. In my case I feel that perhaps they have considered some things that I haven't as they have been thinking about that stuff longer. Can't speak for highlander though.

I appreciate the input, fid, but I don't agree. And frankly, after what I saw highlander post to a female ENTJ in another thread, I don't really care to converse with him about anything involving typology. Period.
 

proteanmix

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There is interesting research being done by Nardi that show different parts of the brain are activated by the same stimuli between different MBTI types. Seymour posted it: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/37216-your-brain-type.html - a very fascinating read.

Yeah, I read that and Nardi didn't even have participants for eight of the 16 types and NFPs were completely overrepresented. Interesting yes, but I wouldn't base anything on it.
 

highlander

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I appreciate the input, fid, but I don't agree. And frankly, after what I saw highlander post to a female ENTJ in another thread, I don't really care to converse with him about anything involving typology. Period.

I believe I know exactly what you are talking about and the interesting thing about that post is that several people sent me reps or other messages to say they agreed with me. So, you may not like what I had to say, but realize there are people who do feel that way at times.

I apologize if what I said in that other thread offended you.
 

Jaguar

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I believe the people that have the most problems bridging between the Fe or Fi users in their real life (I think these miscommunications are exacerbated online) are the ones that are very deeply entrenched in their Fe or Fi mindsets.

These are the ones that believe if you know whether or not they're a Fe/Fi that you can predict what car they drive, what job they have, a person's political and religious affiliations, the color of their socks, and what kind of toothpaste they use. When people start linking behaviors and belief systems to this my eyes glaze. The thing about it is you can't prove or disprove anything so it's like the song that doesn't end.

Exactly.

What I have seen in this forum, I have never seen IRL. For decades, I spoke with almost 100 new people every day. Zero communication gap. Zero. If there was this massive divide, I sure as heck would have seen it. I hired, trained, and mentored teams of people while also building B2B relationships every single day. In other words, I wore several different hats with comfort.

I dealt with human beings. I didn't deal with Fi and Fe people.
 
H

Hate

Guest
"Moderator Highlander doesn't care about Fe people."

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mop827WmWHE"]-[/YOUTUBE]
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Kanye West has the mind and mouth of a child. He needs a swift kick in the ass.
 
H

Hate

Guest
Punky Brewster is inclined to agree. Nice wordplay using the word 'swift, btw.

cute+punky.jpg


Two thumbs up.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
:laugh:

All this rabble about "Why are you here?" is ridiculous. Isn't disagreement with the content on TypoC a reason to be here?

If you think that only people who believe in the content should be here, it reads as though people should only be here to confirm and conform.
 

highlander

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The continued assertion that the two functions are so different is meaningless when you're on a granular level. If a Fe user gets burned by a flame they go "ow!" and a Fi user goes "aw!" Literally like the nerves and sensors of the body react in completely different ways. People act like Fe and Fi users have completely different emotional repertoires, that concepts don't translate between languages and if they do it's a barely understandable translation. I believe the people that have the most problems bridging between the Fe or Fi users in their real life (I think these miscommunications are exacerbated online) are the ones that are very deeply entrenched in their Fe or Fi mindsets.

I think most people use hybrids of the processes so it can be hard to distinguish IRL. That being said, it's a theoretical construct though and within that construct, I believe them to be very different. Fi is highly personalized. It involves subjective values vs. objective ones. Fe is about upholding values of a group - it strives to hold everybody to a common standard. So it involves objective values vs. subjective values. I don't think either is better than the other but I do believe them to be very different.
 

highlander

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:laugh:

All this rabble about "Why are you here?" is ridiculous. Isn't disagreement with the content on TypoC a reason to be here?

If you think that only people who believe in the content should be here, it reads as though people should only be here to confirm and conform.

I think the point is that if you don't see the value or purpose in something then why spend time on it.
 

Jaguar

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:laugh:

All this rabble about "Why are you here?" is ridiculous. Isn't disagreement with the content on TypoC a reason to be here?

If you think that only people who believe in the content should be here, it reads as though people should only be here to confirm and conform.

Speaking of conformity. . .
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...nality-matrices/32086-not-typology-forum.html

Take a walk down memory lane. In that thread someone is suggesting that those who do not display an MBTI type "lack courage." Conform, you cowards! :wink:


It's like this ranch just got a shipment of new cattle and now they're a ready for a brandin'! :rofl1:


branding.jpg
 

Sunny Ghost

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hmm... i don't know that all Fe users are created equal, either.

Ni vs. Si makes a big difference as to how Fe works as well.


i'm Fi/Se and my sister is Fe/Si. (which is kinda funny...) i've had a lot of close hand experience of the clash of Fi vs. Fe growing up... :steam: and at holiday get togethers... :doh: (not to mention, clash of the Se vs. Si)

but there are many things i admire her for, as well.
first of all, it took me ages to develop my people skills... :huh: for her, it was a natural gift. and i often relied on her for this gift, as i was just not good at making friends, where as people flocked to her. ultimately, my sister was always one of my best friends growing up, and much of my time was spent hanging out with her and her other friends. :blush:

if you're ever in a situation where someone is treating you badly, :cry: an Fe user will immediately come to your rescue . they are indeed guardians. :yes: i've experienced many a times, Fe users rescuing me from serious Fi hurt. :hug:
 

proteanmix

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I think most people use hybrids of the processes so it can be hard to distinguish IRL. That being said, it's a theoretical construct though and within that construct, I believe them to be very different. Fi is highly personalized. It involves subjective values vs. objective ones. Fe is about upholding values of a group - it strives to hold everybody to a common standard. So it involves objective values vs. subjective values. I don't think either is better than the other but I do believe them to be very different.

This just occurred to me. From a Fe perspective when I hear the word "group" I believe my baseline picture of a group or is way different than yours. Maybe we should clarify this. When I re-read the OP and hear words like "groupthink" and "conformity" I get confused about how that differs from agreeing with someone or holding similar beliefs. If someone believed similarly to you and enough of you got together would it be groupthink anymore or just the right thing to do?

I checked out wiki to find out exactly a group is and maybe some ideas on why I'm not getting this at all. This is helpful, at least for me.

...a group can be defined as two or more humans who interact with one another, accept expectations and obligations as members of the group, and share a common identity. A true group exhibits some degree of social cohesion and is more than a simple collection or aggregate of individuals, such as people waiting at a bus stop. Characteristics shared by members of a group may include interests, values, representations, ethnic or social background, and kinship ties.

When I think of group, the focus for me is not a bunch of faceless, nameless hunks of flesh amassed together, my interest is focused on the shared interests, values, and ties. So what rankles me about these threads is that when I personally tell people what my focus is--the ties between people--it gets reinterpreted as disregard towards the individuals or tripping over social ritual. I suppose this is annoying as well for other Fe-users or maybe just FJs, IDK. I admit, the individual tends to blur a bit, but ultimately there is no tie or bond if there are no anchoring points. The anchoring points (the individuals) get a significant amount of attention too, especially when I'm one of them! And then when you think about the ties and connectors themselves: what are they, why are they important, just so many things to look at it even further annoys me when there is no thought into why I/a Fe user does what I do or just goes along with what I'm told to do when I feel like it's way more complicated than that.

It always depends on how much it matters to me and what I think I can do about it. Especially, when I know within myself a lot of mental and emotional energy goes towards figuring things between myself and another person or between other people. A lot of it points back inward to me and I start realizing things about myself when I think about these connections and ties, so even internally it's a chain reaction even if what catalyzed it happened externally. For me, this is a 360 degree process and ranges in scale, zoom in/zoom out as best as my mind can grasp it.

For example, a friend of mine recently told me she's having trouble sustaining a mentor relationship with someone she asked to mentor her. My mind immediately went to crunching on the nature of mentor/mentee relationship, why is it weakening, what can be done to strengthen it, what kind of communications between her and her mentor could occur to revitalize the relationship. Yes, secondary thoughts were why is she feeling this way, what is frustrating her about this, why is it important to her, but when I say secondary, I mean within the length of a conversation. So then that's another point of frustration for me, to say that Fe doesn't think individual or contextual because for me it tends to happen within minutes. They may not be my first thoughts, but they're not very far behind and I'm not sure how you can even say the word "value" without factoring in the individuals. I need the anchors because it's pointless otherwise. So it's very hard for me to understand these things people say about "the collective" and "the group" because I don't view myself as operating on that level very often, at least not in my daily life. At work, I'm in a deparment, in a division, in a business unit, in a corporation, but my life mainly revolves around those small relationships, between a handful of people.

So now I'm back to wondering what group is again. Thanks wiki, you make my life so much easier!

Primary groups are small groups with intimate, kinship-based relationships: families, for example. They commonly last for years. They are small and display face-to-face interaction.

Secondary groups, in contrast to primary groups, are large groups involving formal and institutional relationships. They may last for years or may disband after a short time. The formation of primary groups happens within secondary groups.

When I think of a group, my immediate frame of reference is the primary group. Feel free to correct me, but I think when people think of Fe, they immediately think of the secondary group. highlander, just for the purposes of what you're saying here let's say generally for Fe the secondary group is the primary group. Do you think that may lead to a high level of internal wrangling and dissonance with those values are at odds? What do you think the decision points are for conflicts between two primary groups (a SO and the family) with a Fe user or between a primary and a secondary group?

I can get real with you and say that there is often a conflict with me when I'm an individual person, with my own individual interests and desires, and when I'm an African-American woman who's part of the larger black community. How do you articulate when those things conflict and how you decide how you're going to align yourself (sorry I don't opt out...it's the Jay in me) or how you move between the two or several? Sometimes it's not about me, and sometimes it is about me. Maybe it is simpler for a Fi user, who doesn't feel as much conflict between their group identity and their individual one because it's clear the individual identity will usually win. Personally, both are very important to me and I don't think my values are shadier because I hold a group identity on par with an individual one.

I know you're not knocking the Fe process, but I can't help but feel like you've oversimplified it while valorizing the subjective process and I want to address this. I get that you're venting and that's all good and leads to productive discussion, but I'm quite happy with my Fe process as well. When you get to a point when these ways of seeing and being are at an impasse, to me the next logical step is to start looking for common denominators to move pass the loggerheads and become less trenchant. It's like two people stuck in a doorway and both refusing to let the other person go so there they remain. Like we said, the problem is figuring out who's going to step back and let the other person go so both people can get out of the mess. That's pretty difficult to decide.
 

highlander

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Ginkgo

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If anything requires 'courage' here, it's the courage to be honest about one's own character.
 

Thalassa

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Kanye West has the mind and mouth of a child. He needs a swift kick in the ass.

I agree. He needs to be...corrected.

Maybe that means we have Fe!! There were some NFPs over in the Kanye West thread saying they totally understand him and would do what he did. CLEARLY this must be an Fi/Fe issue.

:wacko:
 
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