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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #711
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misfortuneteller View Post
    lemme guess you're one of those token T types that think F types are rational?
    I'd take the question at face value.
    Likes Bush Did 9/11 liked this post

  2. #712
    Who Am I? Forever's Avatar
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    I like where this is going.

    *Speaks in a T manner*

    Let's encourage arguments as they lead us closer to the truth or at least what the truth isn't.
    F O R E V E R


    When it matters, everyone's the same.




  3. #713
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    That's what I often tell people about how I think of my emotions, is that there IS a logical framework to it all, and this is to people outside MBTI.
    That's weird. I don't think of them like you do. There's a reason why they're called emotions. They're flighty, fidgety and somewhat irrational.

    I feel them, but it's not immediately apparent to me why I feel them, I can only tell you why I feel such a way after thinking about them.

    I'm quite interested to see what you have to write about this "logical framework". And I don't mean that sarcastically.

  4. #714
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    The recent round of petty bickering has been removed.

    Please take it back on the rails, folks.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes labyrinthine, Hard liked this post

  5. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    That's weird. I don't think of them like you do. There's a reason why they're called emotions. They're flighty, fidgety and somewhat irrational.

    I feel them, but it's not immediately apparent to me why I feel them, I can only tell you why I feel such a way after thinking about them.

    I'm quite interested to see what you have to write about this "logical framework". And I don't mean that sarcastically.
    Let me first just say I appreciate you stating you aren't being sarcastic. I love this forum because I feel I can openly talk about emotions in general rather than having someone tease me about feeling anything deeply.

    But definitely! It won't be easy to explain what I mean by logical framework since it feels rather intuitive (in the sense that understanding emotions comes natural for me, not Typology intuition) and so understanding my own emotions or other's is often done more fluidly rather than a conscious effort on my part. But, a large part of understanding them comes from years of understanding my own and what triggers me, causes me pain or stress, and learning how to work with them when they come. I understand them as very much a part of me and something to be valued and trusted rather than a nuisance or something to ignore. I feel that's a big reason that when strong emotions do come on, I choose to feel them deeply and to explore them as I'm experiencing them. This is most readily done through creative expression of any kind. But, it's that trust and value I place on emotion, as a guiding compass in my life, is most likely why I feel the way about them as I do now.

    I know I haven't mentioned anything about the "logical framework" directly, but essentially, in placing worth in your own emotions and learning from others as well, you can start to understand them as something really very universal and true. A system you can then apply to people as a way to better understand their motivations and deeper desires. This is partially why I also prefer not to read any psychology books or external sources of what emotion means, as I have a rather personal understanding and "logic" behind them and trust my perception of them, than someone external to me.

    I can go on more about it, but this can be a start
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt

  6. #716
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    That's weird. I don't think of them like you do. There's a reason why they're called emotions. They're flighty, fidgety and somewhat irrational.

    I feel them, but it's not immediately apparent to me why I feel them, I can only tell you why I feel such a way after thinking about them.

    I'm quite interested to see what you have to write about this "logical framework". And I don't mean that sarcastically.
    The issue is that even though the function is called "Feeling", it isn't primarily about emotions. It is about value reasoning. It is about the manner in which people judge reality. All four judging function require reasoning tools, but they approach it differently and focus on different types of systems. All of the judging functions have to do with judging and evaluating and navigating a system. That system can be external, internal, based on subjective or objective data. Each individual has a different skill level, so it is possible for anyone to be irrational and struggle to process their emotions in an effective way, but that is only one portion of the whole of reality they are evaluating. Someone can be completely irrational with their own emotions, but still capable of value or logic based reasoning when interacting with another system. The main difference is that Thinkers are better at compartmentalizing their struggles to process emotions through logic. Some of the most remarkable social leaders who were incredibly skilled at applying Fe to change society, also struggled irrationally in their personal lives.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


  7. #717
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    Let me first just say I appreciate you stating you aren't being sarcastic. I love this forum because I feel I can openly talk about emotions in general rather than having someone tease me about feeling anything deeply.

    But definitely! It won't be easy to explain what I mean by logical framework since it feels rather intuitive (in the sense that understanding emotions comes natural for me, not Typology intuition) and so understanding my own emotions or other's is often done more fluidly rather than a conscious effort on my part. But, a large part of understanding them comes from years of understanding my own and what triggers me, causes me pain or stress, and learning how to work with them when they come. I understand them as very much a part of me and something to be valued and trusted rather than a nuisance or something to ignore. I feel that's a big reason that when strong emotions do come on, I choose to feel them deeply and to explore them as I'm experiencing them. This is most readily done through creative expression of any kind. But, it's that trust and value I place on emotion, as a guiding compass in my life, is most likely why I feel the way about them as I do now.

    I know I haven't mentioned anything about the "logical framework" directly, but essentially, in placing worth in your own emotions and learning from others as well, you can start to understand them as something really very universal and true. A system you can then apply to people as a way to better understand their motivations and deeper desires. This is partially why I also prefer not to read any psychology books or external sources of what emotion means, as I have a rather personal understanding and "logic" behind them and trust my perception of them, than someone external to me.

    I can go on more about it, but this can be a start
    The bolded requires you to seriously reconsider me as Fi aux, because I cannot relate to what you're saying. It is as if emotions/values/morals for you have this layered and complex weaving around your life, that it's so intricate to every action/thought/emotion that you have, such that it drives you.

    My view on emotions is a little more plain. Maybe it's because I'm young, or maybe I'm not used to operating in such a way. I don't know. How I go processing it is somewhat logical, where I plainly break down:

    1. What I'm feeling
    2. Why I'm feeling this way
    3. What can I do about it
    4. Where can I go after moving on from here

    I do this with the interest of being "productive", where "productive" means doing more interesting things or think about more interesting things than to get bogged down by slimy, flighty and fidgety emotions. It's just no fun for me to deal with them at all, because I value clarity and mastery.

    I keep going on and on about pulling off mega-kill combos when I'm playing Heroes of the Storm, because it's a game where you need a tactical mind, mechanical dexterity and the ability to predict where the enemy is going to be in order to land your combos. Every time I pull it off, I am very satisfied because I've fully optimized and maxed out the potential of the hero I used to pull off the combo.

    To put it simply, I enjoy making the most out of things, and making things better. It's like a game for me, and when I do make the most of things, the rewards are very real.

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    The issue is that even though the function is called "Feeling", it isn't primarily about emotions. It is about value reasoning. It is about the manner in which people judge reality. All four judging function require reasoning tools, but they approach it differently and focus on different types of systems. All of the judging functions have to do with judging and evaluating and navigating a system. That system can be external, internal, based on subjective or objective data. Each individual has a different skill level, so it is possible for anyone to be irrational and struggle to process their emotions in an effective way, but that is only one portion of the whole of reality they are evaluating. Someone can be completely irrational with their own emotions, but still capable of value or logic based reasoning when interacting with another system. The main difference is that Thinkers are better at compartmentalizing their struggles to process emotions through logic. Some of the most remarkable social leaders who were incredibly skilled at applying Fe to change society, also struggled irrationally in their personal lives.
    I can understand what you're saying, but not fully. I'd like some examples of what you're trying to say. In my mind, it's a bunch of buzzwords that is perfectly coherent, but I just cannot picture it.

  8. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On the one hand, I admire Fe. Its focus on connecting, compassion, giving and being accommodating are a big part of what makes the world a good place to live. It "honors" the feeling of others, which is really wonderful and because of all of these remarkable qualities, it facilitates the building of trusting relationships in the way that perhaps no other function can replicate. Without it, I don't know if harmonious society would be possible.

    At the same time, there are things which deeply disturb me about Fe. I don't like the judgements it applies to decide if somebody's actions are appropriate or not based on a generally accepted perspective or the feelings of the group. A combination of the arrogance that its perspective is right along with the fact that it tends to reflect a popular view means that it can lead to all sorts of things such as inaction, maintaining the status quo and conformity. A bad situation can continue to exist in the sake of maintaining harmony. Also, there is the particular challenge that when the Fe perspective is voiced, others quickly pile on, because of course it reflects a popular view - even if that perspective is wrong. An extreme negative example of Fe would be the Salem Witch Trials in which the mob was in agreement and yet all collectively wrong. It's like the sheep all running over the cliff together.

    Don't get me wrong. I am a huge Fe fan. As I first stated, I see all of the good that it does in the world. Still, I'm quite happy to be an Fi user, with my own personal and subjective judgments, and to be freed from the tyranny of group think. Trust me Fe user, I've listened to what you said. The fact that I go along doesn't mean that I agree with you, nor does it mean you are right. It means that I've decided it is not a battle worth fighting. If I were to fight for every belief or cause I felt strongly about, I would quickly exhaust myself. When I think something is right or it's wrong, it's my own opinion and not the opinion of others. With that perspective in particular, it is important to pick your battles.

    Anyway, I guess what really bothers me is a deep disconnect on the values as to what is important. It is enough to understand this and to see the worth of both perspectives, I suppose for now.

    Thank you very much and carry on.
    that's not Fe but Fi which enforces social rules like please and thanks

  9. #719
    Member Hetaira's Avatar
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    Fe has always been a mystery to me. Especially my oldest daughter (ESFJ). "Mother, you are not wearing THAT to town, are you???" in other words.."what will people think?"

    My Fe friends usually make their major life decisions on:
    1." I have to stay married to the bitch because would would people think if I left her and did not project the picture perfect family of a successful business man?"
    2. "I have to wear this although I also think I look retarded but it is the latest style."
    3. "We need to be seen at this place because that is where people with status hang out."
    4. "But what will people say???"

    Hello? Since I am Fi, I have never ever given a flying *uck because Fi determines my course of action. People like it fine...people don't, fine with me.

    We are able to beat to our own drum...even if we are a bit offbeat.

    Maybe without Fe we would have no societal or cultural norms.

    Fi has a disadvantage though. It is hard for me to be "sensitive" to other's people feelings (Fe) users at times. They seem to take it PERSONAL when I don't comply with the "group" think or style. When these people are family members or spouses...I am clueless. I really try hard to "go along" with the flow to appease them, but they seem to still be angry because inside I still don't give a rat's ass.
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  10. #720
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    I can understand what you're saying, but not fully. I'd like some examples of what you're trying to say. In my mind, it's a bunch of buzzwords that is perfectly coherent, but I just cannot picture it.
    I'll need to come back to this later, but would like to give a breakdown of each judging function with further explanation for how each can function rationally like a system. This will make it easier for me to find the post for later....
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


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