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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #641
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Are there any Fe users in the theatre tonight? Get them up against the wall!
    'Consciousness is not simply a sensory-perceptual affair, a matter of mental imagery, as the contents of our mind would have us believe. It is deeply enmeshed with the brain mechanisms that automatically promote action readiness' - Jaak Panksepp
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  2. #642
    The Senate Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Are there any Fe users in the theatre tonight? Get them up against the wall!
    "If I had my way.... I'd have all of you shot!"
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.
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  3. #643
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    Reinin says they do. Te/Fi users are Objectivists/"Serious."
    Socionics Dichotomies: R3t1
    This looks like caring about the source of an error only in order to correct it. Not the same thing.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #644
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    On the one hand, I admire Fe. Its focus on connecting, compassion, giving and being accommodating are a big part of what makes the world a good place to live. It "honors" the feeling of others, which is really wonderful and because of all of these remarkable qualities, it facilitates the building of trusting relationships in the way that perhaps no other function can replicate. Without it, I don't know if harmonious society would be possible.

    At the same time, there are things which deeply disturb me about Fe. I don't like the judgements it applies to decide if somebody's actions are appropriate or not based on a generally accepted perspective or the feelings of the group. A combination of the arrogance that its perspective is right along with the fact that it tends to reflect a popular view means that it can lead to all sorts of things such as inaction, maintaining the status quo and conformity. A bad situation can continue to exist in the sake of maintaining harmony. Also, there is the particular challenge that when the Fe perspective is voiced, others quickly pile on, because of course it reflects a popular view - even if that perspective is wrong. An extreme negative example of Fe would be the Salem Witch Trials in which the mob was in agreement and yet all collectively wrong. It's like the sheep all running over the cliff together.

    Don't get me wrong. I am a huge Fe fan. As I first stated, I see all of the good that it does in the world. Still, I'm quite happy to be an Fi user, with my own personal and subjective judgments, and to be freed from the tyranny of group think. Trust me Fe user, I've listened to what you said. The fact that I go along doesn't mean that I agree with you, nor does it mean you are right. It means that I've decided it is not a battle worth fighting. If I were to fight for every belief or cause I felt strongly about, I would quickly exhaust myself. When I think something is right or it's wrong, it's my own opinion and not the opinion of others. With that perspective in particular, it is important to pick your battles.

    Anyway, I guess what really bothers me is a deep disconnect on the values as to what is important. It is enough to understand this and to see the worth of both perspectives, I suppose for now.

    Thank you very much and carry on.
    OP thread necro, and all that, but you shoulda kinda sort oughta have posted this on that INTJ and ESFJ / ISFJ relationships thread, h'mmmm?
    (Link: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tionships.html)
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  5. #645
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Hi Annwn,

    Interesting post - I see what you are defining above as interactions well-described through the enneagram.

    Myself, I score as high in Fe as Fi and almost the same Ne & Ni on those cognitive function tests, but I *know* I am not an Fe user. I tell you though, before I used to come to this site and really go deep on these Fe / Fi discussions, I saw myself as pretty darn proficient in Fe ... thought I had much more insight into the structural components of that "way of thinking". I don't; I just don't think the same way. Oh, I can pass myself off as one fair enough. (I agree the terms "Fe user" and "Fi user" are imprecise and lack sophistication ... and no one uses functions in isolation, but time and time again there are two sides to this fence, and the views of Fe are generally on one, and Fi on the other.)

    I have not once come across a thread where an Fi user is trying to explain Fi and an Fe user say "OH I GET IT NOW!" Has not happened. Ever. So to me that's becoming a pretty powerful, replicated pattern. And I have given it my best shot too, and have not met with success either. There's this point where we can get oh so close, but like two poles of magnetic force, at some point we push away, we just don't seem to connect.

    The point? I don't know; just that if this discussion bears fruit it would be pretty amazing. I am still hopeful.
    Thread necro, and all that. Almost 5 years.
    Two points:

    1) as of this point in time, have you ever had an Fe user who got Fi?

    2) I think that they're akin in an bass-ackwards kind of way. Fi is about internal feelings (='values land mines', haha), but as I've seen it described, these internal values are expressions of, or ownership/staking a claim on/planting one's own flag on, *universal* human truths and values. Fe is about external human values, but not "internalized" and made into an archetype, but kind of -- well, this won't be flattering, but I have internal Fi instead of Fe -- more like taking an average of the external emotions of the group you're with, and not internalizing, like I said, but adopting, championing (like a salesman), reflecting them back, and sheepdogging anyone eccentrics who disagree, back into social conformity.

    So Fi doesn't take on the colourings of the group, but recognizes the common humanity holding all members together; Fe takes on the colourings of the group, and ignores other peoples' *internal* states, but holds the GROUP together by forcing external consensus...

    Comments? (Gee, I hope I didn't screw that up too badly. I'm trying *real* hard, being an armoured unit and all...)
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  6. #646
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    OP thread necro, and all that, but you shoulda kinda sort oughta have posted this on that INTJ and ESFJ / ISFJ relationships thread, h'mmmm?
    (Link: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tionships.html)


    Yes, I suppose so.

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  7. #647
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post


    It's too old to join the BSCA (Baby Seal Clubs of America).
    I'm surfing old comments randomly tonight.

    Just d@rn. I thought *I'd* invented the BCSA. Well played, sir.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #648
    The Senate Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This looks like caring about the source of an error only in order to correct it. Not the same thing.
    And that's a valuable skillset. I prefer just making sarcastic quips myself; I don't have the patience for the other thing, usually. I try to zero in on what's going on with questions, but that only works on certain people.

    I do share the belief that there is a "correct" answer; which isn't the same thing as saying that I always know what it is. Obviously everyone has different perspectives, but there's clearly something else going on independent of all those perspectives.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  9. #649
    Don't mind me. Forever's Avatar
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    Reading your original post @highlander , me being a cashier, I totally dislike it when I sense that there is one moody customer and then those waiting behind somehow see this customer irritated and solely just the emotion and not really trying to speculate what the cause could be for that emotion and then they're moody. It's a sad pattern I see. So I'm happy when the moody customer is alone in my line, or there's a really positive person behind him/her. I think that's Fe's weakness. Group conformity for wrong things. Although I couldn't say Te is perfect either.
    obviously you're going to get nothing from reading this

  10. #650
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    as of this point in time, have you ever had an Fe user who got Fi?
    No, but I have found some who do accept it as a framework, one they don't see or understand but do appreciate and believe exists.

    So Fi doesn't take on the colourings of the group, but recognizes the common humanity holding all members together; Fe takes on the colourings of the group, and ignores other peoples' *internal* states, but holds the GROUP together by forcing external consensus...
    Yes, I like how you've condensed that down, with the following caveat. I used to think Fe ignored internal states, but for the most part, I've realized Fe users actually have little to no perception of the space I define as that space. Like literally, do not sense, like the human eye can't generally "see" ultraviolet light. It has helped mature my attitude from frustration to acceptance.

    It's only when I more openly push my emotions around on the chessboard of Fe that I can participate in that realm, so I've been trying to be more clear about getting my needs met by Fe users. It does seem to help all be happier.

    Ni-Fe gets good at what it does from reading hundreds or even thousands of tiny nearly imperceptible external cues encompassing a variety of "tells". Fi-Ne gets good at what it does by opening to what's sensed from that internal space and tangentially fanning out to connect all those feelings into a consistent logical (Fi-logical) web. People who can fake a "tell" can deceive Ni-Fe. People who can fake an internal state can deceive Fi-Ne. To maintain such a deception would entail being able to keep up the game. An INFJ-INFP combination might be particularly effective at detection though, each being able to cover off a place the other does not "see".
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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