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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #551
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think we're calling different things "Fi". Using my metaphor from the "Unanswered Question" post I used to reply to Poki, I think of the Fi as the "everything." [Though technically, the real Fi is how I process and evaluate that core "everything."] And sometimes, at really meaningful parts of my life, it's all on fire, it's all changing, it isn't what it used to be, and it isn't what it will be, yet. With practice, I probably could do something with it, but these times of my life are far too rare and fleeting for me to gain such practice - and as meaningful as they are to me, I don't want to go through them that often. In any event, my "real Fi" the judging function, just isn't done processing, yet. I don't know it (or myself) well enough yet. I can let it shape itself, but since it isn't done reshaping itself, that which was "true" a moment ago doesn't seem "true" a few moments later.

    I was mentioning that "too intense" case to make it clear that things can be "from the heart" but not quite "art." A heartfelt wail or shout for joy does evoke the proper response, but lacks the refinement/precision to describe what is really behind it all.

    It is when I am between these intense times in my life, when I come to really know and understand myself (as I am at that time), that it "just flows," and I can just let things shape themselves, as you put it.
    Excuses, introverts are full of them


    edit: only people who want to be helped can be helped.

  2. #552
    Plumage and Moult Array proteanmix's Avatar
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    What is this thread about now, I've lost track. :confused:
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #553
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Do you use your perception to track the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god?
    Probably not. Truth is secondary. Meaning of truth is primary.

    Investment in that meaning is... variable. Sometimes the investment is in truth, sometimes the investment is in Being Right. In any case investment is probably ludicrously obvious to people other than me since it's probably quite clear when and where I mark particular beliefs as "significant".

    Nonetheless, meaning of truth is, while entertaining, not that worthy when the truth in question isn't true.



    Let us flop this around a bit and see what happens. Were I an INFJ would I say that feeling isn't the primary concern, meaning of feeling is? And what would I say about truth with respect to meaning? Perhaps that the meaning of feeling isn't true when the feeling isn't real?

    (EDIT: I wrote "real", I meant more like "extroverted real": out there among the people.)


    Pffft, I don't know. There's true and there's true. One is a matching of statements to the world and the other is consistency and rank with respect to other categorised beliefs.

    What is the role of introverted truth for extroverted feeling?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #554
    Senior Member Array sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    What is the role of introverted truth for extroverted feeling?
    One could propose models for linking of the two judging functions and note symmetries between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti. If there is a truth-it should a symmetric truth and be quite notable in the Je ausx and terts..

    However MUST the two functions be linked? In a Te dom-must Fi be something they use to ground Te...especially when under 20 for instance? Same for an Fe dom? Could it be that the internal ground is the perceiving function when younger-Si or Ni, and only as they mature, do they begin to utilize the inf judging function in a concerted manner?

  5. #555
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    One could propose models for linking of the two judging functions and note symmetries between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti. If there is a truth-it should a symmetric truth and be quite notable in the Je ausx and terts..

    However MUST the two functions be linked? In a Te dom-must Fi be something they use to ground Te...especially when under 20 for instance? Same for an Fe dom? Could it be that the internal ground is the perceiving function when younger-Si or Ni, and only as they mature, do they begin to utilize the inf judging function in a concerted manner?
    the fact that it "grounds" is not the link. Something along the lines of. Pi/Pe - is like the blind(Pi) guiding the dumb(Pe) and the dumb(Pe) protecting the blind(Pi). Anyways, thank god I am a Ti and can avoid that We got our own set of problems just as bad

  6. #556
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What is this thread about now, I've lost track. :confused:
    Its moved internal, you have to view it from a world view standpoint to witness the functions now. See things for what they are, not what they say, without losing focus on what is said, or you may miss what they are.

  7. #557
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    So an INTJ (moi) is inclined to say truth is less important than meaning of truth, and can get away with that because truth in this case is not much more than matching statements to the external world. An EXTJ may beg to differ--well, not beg, more like roar or honk--on how superficial Te really is, of course. It isn't a trivial task to create arguments based on what's really out there. But moving right along...

    And an INTJ (moi) might assert that introverted feeling is present to keep one interested. Without some investment in this or that proposition, sure, intuition can keep going, producing connections and uncovering... stuff, but why bother. It's a double-edged sword, naturally. One has either the interest in maintaining one's integrety via protecting oneself from assault or one has the interest in maintaining one's integrity via actually being right--matching one's beliefs to the world. Perhaps it's a triple-edged sword: one's beliefs tend to be difficult to explain and often counterintuitive to normal folk. Fi in a good role is present as perhaps a straddling of the two "integrity" roles: being right about the world merged with protecting one's sense of well-being to make a sense that the world contains people too.

    So... an INFJ (someone else).

    An INFJ might say that feeling isn't going to be that meaningful unless it is at least felt out there among the people. If it is out there, then it's worth thinking about. And if it is thought about, one is trying to see behind it, into whatever is its real content.

    And in the task of discovering real content one is aided by a bedrock of some of the things one knows are true. Certainly there is a recognisable order to the feeling environment, but determining actual content is something else, and we might change our understanding of the appropriacy of that order, and even perhaps act to alter that order, after we've spent some time focused on seeing behind the structure to see what's... true? Ti in a good role perhaps straddles two "integrity" roles: being engaged with the world and effecting peace merging with protecting one's sense of true and false to create a sense that the world contains impersonal standards too. (Wut?)


    That last paragraph is speculative, made just by switching terms and attempting to create suitable sentences. The big deal is I was struck by the seeming discovery that perhaps Fe people default to finding feeling meaningless if that feeling isn't displayed among people. Just trying to work out what that means.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #558
    Member Array Ingenue's Avatar
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    It's a bit of an addendum adding to this thread, but...

    (and I'm bringing the conversation back to the original topic)

    I would describe an Fe-user not as emotionally shallow as others on this forum imply, but emotionally narrow.

    But Fe is so much more seductive. Personally I like.
    Last edited by fidelia; 01-03-2011 at 10:02 AM.

  9. #559
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    As in a narrower range of emotional states? If that's what you're saying, I think I would agree. I was discussing with a Fe dom the other day about how we both tended to prefer people who seemed emotionally moderate - not too much at the end of either spectrum.

  10. #560
    Professional Trickster Array Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Whoa. It's taken me about a week to sort through this entire thread. I had shamefully missed this sub-forum until I came across this thread... And what an interesting thread it is. And, I have now added this sub-forum to my regular skulking activities so watch out TypologyCentral!


    What I've Learned about Fe from my Te

    Lessons to be Learned from Te. I've spent a lot of time over the past couple of months thinking about the limits of my Tertiary Te which runs very strong in me. In fact, I have always taken personal pride in my ability to wield my Tertiary Te with more finesse than the average Tertiary Te user. I'm still working out the details in my head, but it definitely seems that there are tremendously powerful analogies between the "limits" of Te and the "limits" of Fe.

    I've come to appreciate that in order for my Te to do what it does best which is get things organized and done in a logical, often sequential manner, it sacrifices the subtlety and nuance that Ti is so good at perceiving. I've also learned that Ti often feels hostile to the blunt, seemingly one-dimensional assessments that Te makes in the name of <insert the task trying to be accomplished here>. And it does seem that you could make the same assessment about Fe versus Fi if you just reread the above sentence and substitute Fe for Te and Fi for Ti.

    Suggestions for Fe Users

    How Fe Might Better Communicate with Fi. I've incorporated my new understanding of the limits of my Te into my presentational style by trying to be more careful to not share my Te observations so bluntly. Now I work hard to make sure I allow for the murky subtleties of Ti by saying things like, "Well, there is no pat answer, but I think in this situation..." and have found this works very well in bypassing Ti's hostility to Te.

    I share my story of realizing the limits of Te because I think it might shed some light on what might be a more Fi-friendly approach for Fe-users. Fe seems very one-dimensional to Fi. And, perhaps Fe, much like Te, sacrifices shades of gray in the name of black and white pronouncements that serve it's agenda which in Fe's case is creating smooth interpersonal relations in a straightforward manner.

    Your thoughts/feedback are appreciate.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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