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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #191
    No moss growing on me Array Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Thanks Giggly. Seems like there are very few SFJs who end up in these discussions, so the only point of comparison is what other people say their experiences are with Fe-using SFJs and a lot of that just doesn't sound like how I operate - I don't like social conventions just for the sake of them. If there is no useful or practical purpose to them, I don't encourage them to continue. However, I think there are some "conventions" if you want to call them that which just serve as some kind of grease to smooth out human interaction and make it less noisy and more glidy.
    I feel the same way.

  2. #192
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yeah I was thinking about what Lady X said in the MBTI Body Language thread the other day about feeling like NFJs are sort of silently judging. I think it's more a matter of us getting our bearings in a new environment. You're right that I seldom have a whole lot of judgement tied up in those impressions. I'm just gathering a bunch of different impressions like tiles of a mosaic to see if there is any picture that emerges from the pieces I have so far. If there is, I'll probably wait till the picture is a lot more complete before even verbalizing my thoughts on it, and even then, I may only do so if it seems like it is important to do so and something bad would happen if I didn't.

    You're right - for me it's about analysis and understanding my surroundings, not playing a game of leverage by tabulating a person's weak spots in case it is useful to me in the future.
    I feel like I'm seeing for the first time how unnerving it might be for people who don't work this way. Perhaps because they don't realize there is no judgement usually attached. Someone I'm close to has a huge problem with that I work this way, that I seem to be analyzing and I've never known what to do about smoothing things over. But now I feel like I can perhaps reassure her that I'm not weighing her up or waiting for her to make a mistake...

  3. #193
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yeah I was thinking about what Lady X said in the MBTI Body Language thread the other day about feeling like NFJs are sort of silently judging. I think it's more a matter of us getting our bearings in a new environment. You're right that I seldom have a whole lot of judgement tied up in those impressions. I'm just gathering a bunch of different impressions like tiles of a mosaic to see if there is any picture that emerges from the pieces I have so far. If there is, I'll probably wait till the picture is a lot more complete before even verbalizing my thoughts on it, and even then, I may only do so if it seems like it is important to do so and something bad would happen if I didn't.

    You're right - for me it's about analysis and understanding my surroundings, not playing a game of leverage by tabulating a person's weak spots in case it is useful to me in the future.
    Random: I know that I judge people based on the consistency of their actions. If it's small things, I don't care but if it is big things, then no thank you. Do you guys base your judgments on how much social protocol people follow? If someone doesn't seem to have any sense of social etiquette, they seem to scare me.

  4. #194
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    I think anyone that stands out in certain ways - social protocol, unusual eye contact patterns etc makes me take a second look and figure out if there are other underlying reasons that I feel uncomfortable around them. Usually there are.

    I do care a lot about consistency. I think frequency of inconsistency (a lot of small things) or severity (one really big thing) cause mental alarm bells to go off for me. When it's small, I find it hard to judge when is a good time to verbalize my concerns until I can present an extensive pattern to them and also have eliminated other possible explanations or motives for why the person may have behaved as they did.

    @ violaine - It never really occurred to me that I may need to verbalize that to people, but I think you may be right. It probably would help if they understood it was more a way for me to get my bearings and also understand the world around me, rather than judging them constantly. Having said that, I still do make mental sticky notes and if I see a certain pattern emerging, I'm going to pay closer attention to it. Is that felt as being judgy do you think?

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Thanks Giggly. Seems like there are very few SFJs who end up in these discussions, so the only point of comparison is what other people say their experiences are with Fe-using SFJs and a lot of that just doesn't sound like how I operate - I don't like social conventions just for the sake of them. If there is no useful or practical purpose to them, I don't encourage them to continue. However, I think there are some "conventions" if you want to call them that which just serve as some kind of grease to smooth out human interaction and make it less noisy and more glidy.
    Yes, for example, if someone's friend dies and you never knew the person who died AT ALL, and the someone you're talking to suddenly wants to engage you in a conversation that has no real interest to you (because you learned to deal with death as a child, and this person is pushing fifty, so inwardly you want to roll your eyes because they're freaked out because they've never been to a burial before at 48 years of age) you still say "I'm sorry" and "that's sad" and "that must be hard for you" and hug them, because it would be mean and hurtful to do anything else.

    This is why social conventions are a good thing.

    As for this "chess game" you people keep talking about, I don't see it that way, I see things like some people know how to behave, and others don't, and people who don't play well with others should be made to behave. I have tried to control the behavior or "take over" in situations where I thought there was dire social chaos or the person needed "retraining." Whatever this is, it's surely why I give off an FJ vibe no matter what feeling function I'm using.

  6. #196
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think anyone that stands out in certain ways - social protocol, unusual eye contact patterns etc makes me take a second look and figure out if there are other underlying reasons that I feel uncomfortable around them. Usually there are.

    I do care a lot about consistency. I think frequency of inconsistency (a lot of small things) or severity (one really big thing) cause mental alarm bells to go off for me. When it's small, I find it hard to judge when is a good time to verbalize my concerns until I can present an extensive pattern to them and also have eliminated other possible explanations or motives for why the person may have behaved as they did.

    @ violaine - It never really occurred to me that I may need to verbalize that to people, but I think you may be right. It probably would help if they understood it was more a way for me to get my bearings and also understand the world around me, rather than judging them constantly. Having said that, I still do make mental sticky notes and if I see a certain pattern emerging, I'm going to pay closer attention to it. Is that felt as being judgy do you think?
    I'm guessing it must feel that way. It's the same for me in that I'm navigating the world that way. I do the same with the sticky notes but I don't think of that as judgemental. It's like the amber light before it eventually goes to red or green. Hmm. :-)

    I also draw back when someone is throwing very heavy, negative emotions my way. I think it could look like disapproval when really it is about processing information. I'm taking their feelings very seriously and wondering what I can do to help them feel better. I think this is the main bone of contention between myself and very emotionally expressive people. It is hard for me to adapt to a constantly changing emotional landscape... It has only been recently that I have understood that it's simply venting. I still don't like being on the receiving end and I'm not quite sure how to navigate this but it seems to be the main reason for disconnect between myself and a few Fi users in my life. (For want of a better description.)

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Actually, talking about it like this, I can see why other people might find it creepy, like they are being analyzed constantly. I have had that complaint before. I don't actively seek information though, which makes me think I might appear cold (?) or disengaged when I'm pondering
    I have had the complaint as well that I am analyzing a person too much or they feel overanalyzed by me.

    A lot of times I am analyzing what I strategically need to do socially to make the current situation go as well as possible, despite whatever inner feeling I have.

    Don't know if this is Fe or Fi/Te "pseudo Fe". Whatever it is I'm quite good at it when I apply myself.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I'm guessing it must feel that way. It's the same for me in that I'm navigating the world that way. I do the same with the sticky notes but I don't think of that as judgemental. It's like the amber light before it eventually goes to red or green. Hmm. :-)

    I also draw back when someone is throwing very heavy, negative emotions my way. I think it could look like disapproval when really it is about processing information. I'm taking their feelings very seriously and wondering what I can do to help them feel better. I think this is the main bone of contention between myself and very emotionally expressive people. It is hard for me to adapt to a constantly changing emotional landscape... It has only been recently that I have understood that it's simply venting. I still don't like being on the receiving end and I'm not quite sure how to navigate this but it seems to be the main reason for disconnect between myself and a few Fi users in my life. (For want of a better description.)
    I know a lot of times I do not feel what the other person is feeling, but I still respond with sympathy, it's not that I don't care (well sometimes I don't depending on what it is) but most of the time I do care and I go out of my way to placate the person and give them what they need, but I may not really "feel it" if that makes any sense. It's more like I'm caring for the person, but emotionally distanced from the situation.

    I'm really weird this way because at other times I can be very sensitive and emotional and easily moved, and I hate when people are unnecessarily cruel to others, especially if the others are trying to be kind.

  9. #199
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I'm guessing it must feel that way. It's the same for me in that I'm navigating the world that way. I do the same with the sticky notes but I don't think of that as judgemental. It's like the amber light before it eventually goes to red or green. Hmm. :-)

    I also draw back when someone is throwing very heavy, negative emotions my way. I think it could look like disapproval when really it is about processing information. I'm taking their feelings very seriously and wondering what I can do to help them feel better. I think this is the main bone of contention between myself and very emotionally expressive people. It is hard for me to adapt to a constantly changing emotional landscape... It has only been recently that I have understood that it's simply venting. I still don't like being on the receiving end and I'm not quite sure how to navigate this but it seems to be the main reason for disconnect between myself and a few Fi users in my life. (For want of a better description.)
    Who gave you permission to share my brain, woman? Amber lights - yeah that's it! Re second paragraph - I feel the same way when someone reacts to me in a very unexpected way compared to how they usually would. I usually have a pretty good idea of what to expect, so when they react differently than that in a way I couldn't have even imagined, I draw way back to try to figure it out and recalibrate. Sometimes it is a reaction under stress, but if it doesn't seem to be typical and I've known them a long time, it really makes me question even my own perception of the world and my judgment.

  10. #200
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    How would you describe the way you go about connecting with people one on one? To me it feels like Fi one on one connections are much more intense. Either you are in or you're out. If you're in, you're REALLY in. If not, you don't really know a whole lot about the inner person. Maybe it's why Fi sees Fe users as disengenuous or wearing a mask. I think we just have more gradual degrees of connection. Are there strong differences in Fi users connecting to other Fi users, vs Fi to Fe? What flips the switch for you guys in how you choose to connect with someone individually?
    I agree about the intensity. Some of the most amazing and stimulating conversations I have had have been with Fi dom/aux people. I either discover fairly quickly that I am on the same wavelength with someone such that this can happen (rarely); or discover equally quickly, and reinforce with each passing encounter, that there is no benefit to opening up to this person much at all (frequently). It really is all or nothing.

    For me, the switch is flipped by something the other person says that gives me a sufficient glimpse of their perspectives. Occasionally this can be in response to a direct challenge on my part, to see what they're made of, but more often it just happens. I should point out that not all intensity is the same. For example, I connect with some colleagues fairly intensely, but in a different way than I connect with close friends.

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