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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #11
    Senior Member Array Jaguar's Avatar
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    Dear Fe user,

    You are a lovely person with great depth and kick-ass Ni.
    Thank you for being my friend.
    The east and the west are mine, the north and the south are mine. All seems beautiful to me.
    — Walt Whitman

  2. #12
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Hmmm...are you saying you find it better to decide "appropriateness" based on your own individual feelings, rather than the overall feelings? This does seem to fit in better with Fi, but I'm not sure I agree that it's the proper way to go about things.
    It's not better. It's different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'm interested in where this impression comes from, because I always see Fe users hemming and hawing about IMO and IME and "maybe" this and "perhaps" that, whereas Fi/Te comes across as "this is how it is (...and sometimes, "if you disagree you're attacking me")"
    It comes from experience and observation. The fact that the judgment is often expressed in a subtle way to maintain harmony does not mean that it is not there. Strong Fe users are judging all of the time whether you know it or not. I'm not going to get into the Fi "you are attacking me", "self pitying", "selfishness" thing. My Fi does not care about these things right now. I've heard enough about them already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    What's the distinction between a "popular view" and a view that has considered the potential feelings of everyone before speaking? If people genuinely agree, why shouldn't they "pile on"? Is a commonly-held view more likely to be wrong than a rare view?
    I don't see it as much different but I'm sure some artful application of Ti would find find flaws in the nuances of the wording. It's close enough in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    What values do you specifically find important? What values do you think Fe users find important?
    Fe users generally value harmony and group values. Fe is focused on the object (the feelings of others). Fi users are focused on what they personally feel is important or to the extent something is good or bad. It is their personal appraisal based on their own beliefs, sense of integrity, right and wrong, etc. It is subjective - it comes from within vs. influence of the object. Therefore, by definition, it is less likely to be susceptible to group think/feelings.

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  3. #13
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Are there any specific examples you can provide other than the Salem Witch Trials?
    Fashion.

    That one's harmless enough. And don't say you're not into fashion - it isn't the point.

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  4. #14
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Dear highlander,

    I don't know exactly what's got you feeling this "beat-up", but I hear your frustration right now, and I want to offer you some thoughts. It feels challenging, even difficult, to operate in an environment where the "greater good" is defined outside of your locus of control. That the expression of your feelings or your own personal values are sometimes sacrificed to that "greater good" too, and the resultant expectations are that you should simply accept the decision of the group as the best decision for all. It can feel castigating to be subject to Fe judgement; it can seem like the whole world has deprecated your POV. My advice: hold true, stand fast, be strong. You are OK and your feelings are OK and I know that although it can leave one feeling small, your voice matters and you must never doubt that for a minute. You are needed. You are appreciated.

    Dear Fe user,

    For reasons I am not fully privy to, highlander is feeling frustrated, unheard or unappreciated for his POV. Take his post above within that context; it is not intended to be a condemnation of Fe, just an expression of how difficult it feels sometimes to be on the Fi end of the equation. Fe has the wonderful vantage point of always being "right". And I know many of you Fe users do swallow your own personal ideas in order to help facilitate the harmony of the group, and I have come to appreciate that you only express yourselves emotionally with intent. But Fi just needs to express emotions sometimes; highlander just needed to get that out. There's no intent here to inflame or annoy or hurt anyone, nor do I imagine there is a specific pre-defined purpose to his post. He needed to vent and I suggest you just let him, and ask why, even offer a kind word or two to help.

    highlander - for you Fe users - for you

    other Fi users - ah, go on, get outta here, I gave you enough hugs already!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #15
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Fashion.

    That one's harmless enough. And don't say you're not into fashion - it isn't the point.
    Fair enough. Yes, there are always going to be and always have been 'group standards'/ norms when it comes to most things in life. I'm not certain how much of this is actually due to Fe alone, but yes, anytime one veers away from the norm, one faces the possible repercussions of doing so.

    It's also important to note that just because one adheres to some supposed 'group standard', doesn't mean that person hasn't fully thought everything through and come to a personal understanding that that's what they truly believe in. i.e. it doesn't mean they've picked up some norm without any forethought/analysis at all. And what if an Fi user has a personalized value set that alligns with the group? That's still their own Fi-derived values, it just happens to match up with the majority as well.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #16
    insert random title here Array Randomnity's Avatar
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    I'm getting the feeling that this might have been more intended as more of a venting than a discussion. So, sorry for that. I just find it interesting, especially in light of the Fi discussions.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    likes this Array gromit's Avatar
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    Yeah I think I misunderstood the purpose of this thread...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #18
    Habitual Fi LineStepper Array JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Fe didn't make Oberon leave, Oberon made Oberon leave.



  9. #19
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Take his post above within that context; it is not intended to be a condemnation of Fe, just an expression of how difficult it feels sometimes to be on the Fi end of the equation. Fe has the wonderful vantage point of always being "right". And I know many of you Fe users do swallow your own personal ideas in order to help facilitate the harmony of the group, and I have come to appreciate that you only express yourselves emotionally with intent. But Fi just needs to express emotions sometimes; highlander just needed to get that out. There's no intent here to inflame or annoy or hurt anyone, nor do I imagine there is a specific pre-defined purpose to his post. He needed to vent.
    This is exactly right. It is the entire point.

    It is something I was hoping would lead to discussion though - not just pure venting. The fact that a group's norms and values are a certain way does not mean those are right. That is a big part of what I'm saying.

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  10. #20
    Carerra Lu Array IZthe411's Avatar
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    Okay I got it.

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