Also, if you're in contact with mostly IxFJs I think taking into account Interaction Style may be of great help to you. That may account for some of what you experience and what you notice in your daily life. Two FJs are ExxJs, and for me I'm a pretty strong EJ, which means when if left unchecked, my style is to bulldoze and assert my will. When I'm being bad and get feedback it tends to be along the lines of "you can't have your way all the time," so this self-sacrificial stuff is foreign to me. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say there are a fair amount of other (E)FJs like me who will mow you down (this is not a good trait!) before they throw themselves on a funeral pyre for you.
Another thing is that if this if the only aspect of Fe you identify as Fe you may not be attuned to recognizing other facets as Fe. Your Fe markers are:
- Focus on others/what other people think
- Group identity
Would you recognize FJs who don't fit this pattern? Would they be something else entirely to you or they would be thought of as outliers and abnormalities rather than a legitimate "strain" of Fe users?
I gave an example earlier in this post about a conversation with a friend of mine and the problems she was having with her mentor. I also wrote this post outlining a thought process of mine in the Fe Quick Reference thread. I also explained a real life conflict for me between my individual identity and my group identity.Interesting points. So if it is all about connections and relationships - how do you go about doing that?
No. I see it as I have personal values too, why would someone think I'd rollover backwards and disregard them or that mine are any less important to me when the chips are down?Forgive me if I'm over-interpreting but the way I read your train of thought is: "I have personal values too - why do the Fi users think they are so special?"
Yes."Who says their values are any better than anybody else's"
Yes and no. There needs to be some consensus and agreement or you'll have everyone deciding what is right based on what they believe without any sort of check and balance. Someone could have a really whacked out value set. When there's a group of people like they're I believe they're called a cult. When that value set reaches critical mass then you have a culture of really bad stuff and that's no better."All these individual values lead to chaos"
Yes! Throw me a bone, what is it that you value, maybe we'll see they're not so different after all. If they're irreconcilable then we need to figure out what do do. If you don't communicate what's important to you how do you expect anyone else to know and why get frustrated with others for not magically knowing? And another thing if you can't articulate them then move out of the line of fire until you can (not you personally highlander) because you will be offended and view almost everything as a attack on your value system until you can tell others what they are so people will know what they're working with."you're not explaining your grandiose values anyway, so I can't do anything with this".
And if you do communicate your values and people don't agree or see it in the same way then such is life. That doesn't mean give up, it means find an alternate route. Find a special interest group that aligns with your worldview, find other like-minded individuals and make inroads.
I think I said exactly this earlier in the thread. I suppose this means we're in agreement?You seem to be discounting the other perspective. Isn't it fine that there are two different perspectives and that they are equally valid? I've said it before and I will say it again - there is no reason to think that either function is better than the other. They are just different. It also doesn't mean that we don't use both of them. We just prefer one over the other.
OK, this is good to know. I don't have a value-based reaction to everything. I have a value-based reaction to some things and when there's a conflict I don't choose peace and harmony to the detriment of what I believe, which is how I've been interpreting some of the comments in this thread. For example, when I go the store and see items labeled "Fair Trade" I don't have a value attached to that. Sometimes I buy, sometimes I don't. I support it as an idea, but not always in action and I don't feel bad about it when I don't. But I will always take my reusable grocery bags because I feel like that is something within my control to contribute to and make a measurable difference.Originally Posted by Southern Kross
Maybe that's where this conformist idea is coming from. If I don't have a value attached to something then yes I let the status quo handle it (uh-oh dangerous!). The corollary to this is people don't know what others have values attached to unless they say or act in a way that let's others know what they are. BTW, this does not mean that I wouldn't intercede to wrongdoing or violations to other human beings. People take that too far.
I'm wary of people that have a value attached to almost everything but I do realize people like this serve as collective conscience and I'm grateful for that. I'm wondering if a Fi user has VIP value attached to something and someone else doesn't, what do you think? I keep wondering what type most hardcore PETA activists are.
OMG, yes. I thought that feature that was widely known.Originally Posted by highlander