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Thread: Dear Fe User,

  1. #141
    Glycerine
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    OH NO, YOU DIDN'T.........

  2. #142
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Jag
    I would never have said a single word to you had you not brought up my name.
    Enough said.

  3. #143
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Not true, I just don't know how many times I have to say it. I am not a sacrificial lamb and I quite openly (as tactfully and diplomatically as I know how) disagree with people. Like you have mentioned, sometimes it's not worth fighting it but when it is you do.

    Maybe I'm around abnormal Fe-users (particularly FJs) because that is simply not the case based on my personal experiences. FJs are I know are quite vocal when they disagree and will make the biggest scene you've ever had the pleasure to witness and will tear the place down if you try to stop them. I've made the scene before and will probably do so many times in my life. Not the best or most flattering Fe trait, but it exists.

    I guess also when you say that, it makes Fe feel passive and feeble, but that's probably my spin on it. I also think this is another problem when people talk about Fe: Fi is allowed to be individually experienced--no two people experience it the same allegedly. Yet Fe is pretty blanketedly the same, no matter where you go, who you are, or what your background is. Fe will have the same reactions, reach the same conclusions, behave in the same way, feel the same way, think the same thing. Why rob Fe users of their unique expressions of Fe? If a Fe user says, this is not me, I feel like there's this assumption the Fe user is inaccurately gauging themselves.

    Another thing, when a Fe user speaks about Fe, notice what aspect they emphasize. For example, I'm more into connections and relationships than harmony. Understand that each Fe users will hone on and identify with an aspect a Fe that strikes them. I admit that I feel good about my ability to analyze a relationship, but I'm not willing to STFU when I think something needs to be said. That has it's positives and negatives. Do you think IRL, FJs (I find it hard to lump TPs in with this) don't disagree with people and make it known? If I were a vegetarian and was given food with meat in it, I'd politely decline. I don't put myself out just to have harmony.
    I certainly agree with this based on my experiences with Fe users. I can think of several Fe dom/aux that are close to me that are often very vocal in their opposition to social values that clash with their own principles. I don't think that complete mindless conformism to a social norm is by any means a fair definition of Fe.

    When the statement "personal values" is thrown about I feel like there are people constantly walking around drawing lines in the sand, refusing to do because a personal value is on the brink of being violated. Maybe I don't have very many personal values, so I don't feel like there's a constant assault on them. If I have a strongly held value, I'm not going to break it just to have peace. What kind of person does that make me...that means I don't stand for anything.

    This is what frustrates me about these Fe/Fi discussions, very often Fi users act like there's some moral vacuum with Fe. Not everything is a moral battleground. If my director asks me to print 10 copies of a report and I'm a fervent green activist, I've got a decision to make: my income or my value. First and foremost, I hope someone would be self-aware enough to not choose to be in an environment that would force them to constantly choose between their values and doing their job or living their life in a way they can be at peace with.

    Another thing, while you may feel your personal value is the most important thing in the world, that does not mean it in fact is or that it should be a priority for anyone else. If someone makes a completely opposite decision or evaluation based on their personal value it does not mean there is an absence of values because it doesn't agree with yours. This concept of personal value is so abstract and I think people hide in the grandioseness of it, never needing to explain it because it sounds so beautiful and lofty so it must be good.
    I don't know about other Fi Doms/aux (I mean in terms of when Fi is extremely central to decision making) but I have come to realise that I evaluate almost everything in a 'moral' sense - not necessarily in the conflict righteous/evil or good/bad but more right/wrong. Even though I don't think of most situations as involving an ethical decision, I unconsciously approach it that way nonetheless. I might not refuse to do something small that felt wrong (such as your example of wasting paper) but I would still feel rather uneasy and guilty for failing to do what my heart says is right. My conscience is beating me up about one thing or another, constantly and relentlessly. I care about everything; by that I mean, I have a value based reaction to almost everything. That is what the 'personal values' term represents to me. However, I am mostly harder on myself than others - being able to live with my own behaviour is my first and foremost concern. I don't constantly hold others to all of my values. It is usually only when people are being hurt (physically of emotionally) or being unfairly disadvantaged that I am unmovable and expect things of others. I have noticed that some Fe users confuse my high standards for my own behaviour with an expectation or judgement on them, which is not what I intend.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I, personally, will sacrifice happiness of the people in the short term in order to achieve long term happiness-and suffer the consequences of immediate anger and frustration on their part. NeTe can see a better future via change. The resultant long term happiness yields internal harmony-with myself.
    I can relate to this, but I'm not sure if my behavior in this situation seems more FJ or Ne/Te...when I first moved to my mother's several years ago (and my sister was struggling with some serious personal issues) I was appalled at the way she was allowing my nephews to run wild. I immediately began to build more structure and order and discipline for them, and I didn't particularly care if my mother thought it was bitchy, or my nephews were inconvenienced, because all I saw is that they were being raised to be disrespectful and undisciplined, and that wouldn't do ANYONE any good in the long-term. I think my ESFP mother is way too lenient with children (so does my ENFJ sister, who laments the most about how she and my other two sisters were raised - I was with my SJ grandparents 99% of the time - and ENFJ sister was thankful for the presence of what I think was an SFJ aunt on her father's side) and it does both her and the children a disservice.

    To me that is a case where I don't mind pissing people off in the immediate to achieve what I see as long-term good for everyone involved, the kids, the family, and me...not to mention society as a whole who will have to deal with those children when they become adults.

    Fi/Fe is very confusing. It's why I've mostly abandoned it.

  5. #145
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Does anyone think Fi tends to be more idealistic and Fe more practical? It seems like an impression I might be getting.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  6. #146
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    The Fi/Fe battle just never ends.

  7. #147
    Glycerine
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    ^ we are just masochists, that's all.

  8. #148
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    ^ we are just masochists, that's all.
    For real.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Does anyone think Fi tends to be more idealistic and Fe more practical? It seems like an impression I might be getting.
    In the same sense that Te is more practical and Ti is more idealistic. But when you bring Ti and Te into the real world, Ti has alot more functional ideas then Te does because Te dismisses things as impractical because of limitations of the knowledge of that person. I can easily see this flipped from a Fe/Fi perspective.

    "But when you bring Fi and Fe into the real world, Fi has alot more functional ideas then Fe does because Fe dismisses things as impractical because of limitations of the knowledge of that person(I am not talking inter-relationship, but the knowledge of the Fe person.)"
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    The Fi/Fe battle just never ends.
    This reminds me of arguements with my son. He gets an idea in his head and when I explain things he tries to fit parts of what I said into his picture and comes up with a different conclusion then what I just said. I basically repeat the same thing over and over until I finally give up. Well this Fi and Fe battle is really no different.

    2 options we have are taking what someone says as true or not true and find the holes no real conslusion are made, just knowledge gained. The other option is to piece it into something we know to come up with our own conclusion. Its why IXTJs can all be in a meeting and come to a conclusion of what to do and 15 minutes later are 99.9% positive that the conclusion was different then what it actually was. Like they hear only what they want to hear that fits into their picture. Everything else is ignored.
    Im out, its been fun

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