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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on how hard and fast those limitations are. If there are limitations that cannot be crossed and the goal is not going to be changed, the middle-man has the sucky position of giving the best results s/he can and then explaining rationally why the limitations could not be overcome. It all depends on the viability of the feedback -- was it all definitely true, or was it a kneejerk reaction/vent?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ exactly ... the reaction in this scenario was to just tell everyone they have to get them done regardless of the logical impediments to the process. Is the problem with how Te raised the points? If so, how to say the above better, so it will be received in a less defensive manner.
    Just getting it done regardless sounds more like a Te's behaviour.

    I think the Fe would be taken back for a minute to let that marinate.

    Not sure how it would affect a Ti dom, but based on my experience with my Ti dom boss and my Ti dom staff (surrounded by Tis!!!) They respect the deadline, but to hear that information wouldn't knock them out their seat. It seems like that's more Te......

    I find that Ti users aren't likely to get offended in hearing feedback like that. It's like 'whatever' which seems to be the mantra of NTPs. I love it.

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I guess it depends on how hard and fast those limitations are. If there are limitations that cannot be crossed and the goal is not going to be changed, the middle-man has the sucky position of giving the best results s/he can and then explaining rationally why the limitations could not be overcome. It all depends on the viability of the feedback -- was it all definitely true, or was it a kneejerk reaction/vent?
    Yeah, how accurate does this have to be on the first go round? Preliminary budgets were recently completed at my job with a dropdead date of the end of November, with the more precise budgets to be completed before the FY ends in January 2011.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I read the op and skimmed the responses, so what I'm saying may be a repeat:

    I don't see the problem. You could either get everyone to hustle in their reports in 3 days or communicate back to upper management that the timetable needs to be moved forward.

    I'd talk to upper management, and gauge how easy it is to move things around. If they can move it forward, do that. If they can't, then hustle your workers, but they won't like you for it. I see the pitfalls of both, but hey, that's how it is. Everyone makes mistakes, but you probably should remember to get data from that smart guy first before you make more choices in the future - he clearly has his bearings on the situation and is a valuable employee.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Thanks all for your responses so far. There are lots of good questions popping up; rather than get into the details of whether or not the Te objections are reasonable, I am hoping to focus on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think I'd just label this as feedback, however; this was essential information that impacted the viability of the assignment being given. I don't see how someone could have avoided saying it; it would just need to be said in a way that did not put the boss on the defensive / trigger a power play.
    So, @bold: how exactly would you say it? (please, anyone in thread is welcome to respond to that.)

    And, if it were you personally as the boss here, would you have any kind of internal emotional reaction?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
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    When people see some things as good,
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    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    So, @bold: how exactly would you say it? (please, anyone in thread is welcome to respond to that.
    "that seems a little soon to have a comprehensive evaluation of the issues, given the holidays and our other responsibilities. Besides, we don't know X Y Z at this point and I think it would be better to use that information in the evaluation. Can we give you a preliminary evaluation on Jan 6 that we can refine later when we've more thoroughly reviewed the facts? Or do you think it would it be better to wait until we know XYZ before drafting the evaluations?"

    And, if it were you personally as the boss here, would you have any kind of internal emotional reaction?
    Depends on a whole lot of factors. I would perhaps be taken aback by the forcefulness and lack of alternatives, and think that the person is overly critical (focusing on problems, not solutions).

    Again, assuming what's asked for is actually not possible. If it is, it changes the situation dramatically.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    So, @bold: how exactly would you say it? (please, anyone in thread is welcome to respond to that.)
    I don't know, it doesn't seem that hard to me:

    "I appreciate you letting us know what has to get done, and I want to support this effort and make it happen. But I had some concerns as soon as you described these goals.

    1. We can try to hurry staff evaluations, but the financials will not be completed in time, so we have no quantifiable data to describe staff performance for 2010; any evaluations we can give will be purely subjective and qualitative. Is this okay, or do we need this data?

    2. Has the company master plan been updated yet? I have not seen it, but I would need this plan in order to make sure any new goals we set would support the goals from that master plan.

    3. Three of our staff have already left for Christmas vacation and will not return until Jan 3. We can handle other appraisals until then, but I am not sure what to do about these three staffers. Can we submit their goals later than the deadline, as long as we get the bulk in on time? Or can we possibly shift the deadline? That would make things so much easier and enable us to fully meet the goals you are laying out."

    Basically, the tone of voice is good, and alternatives are being offered.

    I just sat through a risk/requirements management session at work, and basically I guess I just approach this stuff as a problem where my job is to analyze and evaluate risk/problems, and then share that information with management. It is not up to me to make the decision; I just need to provide them with honest, accurate information, and let them decide THEIR priorities.

    And, if it were you personally as the boss here, would you have any kind of internal emotional reaction?
    Well, in terms of practical reaction, it's a moot point -- I'd try to accommodate everyone and come up with the most reasonable solution (i.e., one that accommodates the most needs), unless upper management tied my hands, and then I'd bust my ass to help the people under me get their jobs done and support them. Not just to get the job done, but to avoid having them feel like shit, and also knowing that my helping them will lead to future goodwill.

    In terms of the internal monlogue, it depends on context -- how I feel that day, tone of voice and wording of the staff, the sort of pressure and relationship I had from upper management, etc. Internally, I suppose I might feel annoyance or stress if I felt like someone were just being obstinate or waylaying what should be a simple plan and just complaining, but typically I filter that out unless I feel it's productive to respond out of it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Thanks Jennifer, excellent - what you have typed above seems more natural to e-mail (for example) than saying it out loud.

    How would a Te user still be concise and authoritative, appropriate to a meeting venue, but be heard better? Is simply rephrasing as a question helpful? "The financials won't be available, do you see that as a problem when everyone's ratings and raises are tied to these numbers?"

    This thread is wonderful btw - it's great to see everyone drawn to the practicalities of how this could work out given the timeline, and questioning the Te statements.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #19
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    ^^what Jennifer said!

    I think there isn't a problem being heard in this case. The original statement conveys the message accurately, and is certainly concise and authoritative - some would argue too much so.
    -end of thread-

  10. #20
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    So what I hear y'all saying is that there's a subtext missing ... that the actual literal communication above is not the issue, there's something else ... correct?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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