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Do you believe the functions are (pointing to something) real?

Do you believe the functions are (pointing to something) real?


  • Total voters
    36

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Feel free to add some commentary as to whether you think they definitely are real, how real you think they are, whether they're just pointing to something real, what what they are pointing to might really be, or any similar information.

Also this poll is simply about whether the functions exist, not how they might be ordered, if they do exist.

Also, please choose only the option that best fits your beliefs (this poll was meant to be single-choice).

Thanks. :)
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I think that if a certain group tends to act in a certain way, then it is statistically real.
 

stalemate

Post-Humorously
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
1,402
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
What is real? I think they are just labels assigned to things that we can all pretty much observe happening within ourselves to some extent.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I clicked two. I clicked that they might be pointing to something real but aren't real themselves, and that they are totally bogus.

I swing between thinking it's all a bunch of crap, and simply that maybe yeah it does signify something, but the functions themselves are not real, not in the concrete order people claim, why can't it be based on observable behavior?,etc.
 

slowriot

He who laughs
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
1,314
Enneagram
5w4
a function = a metaphor for multitude of cognitive abilities
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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abstract, but real (we are geared towards thinking only what is concrete is real!)
Hard to know how to even vote on this.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
abstract, but real (we are geared towards thinking only what is concrete is real!)

Yes, but isn't that quite understandable, considering all the imaginary abstractions that man has believed in over time?

Hard to know how to even vote on this.

Thanks!

I tried to make it that way. :D

Looking at the results now, though, I wish I'd used a different 3rd option.

I wish I'd put "I believe the functions are pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves".

I wonder how that would've changed the voting... :thinking:

More voters, please!!! :cheese:
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
What is real? Is it defined by touch, taste, smell and see?

As for my beliefs, generally speaking, there are groupings of individuals who process information in similar fashion. You may call them functions, processes, watermelons, whatever you want, but yes, I believe these processes do exist.
 

Snuggletron

Reptilian
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
2,224
MBTI Type
INFP
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10
I accidentally two whole vote options but in the end I'd go with #3.
 

stalemate

Post-Humorously
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ENFP
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7w6
I wish I'd put "I believe the functions are pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves".
How is that different from this:

"I believe the functions may be pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves... "

It is just the difference between "may be" and "are" pointing to something real? Maybe it is just the perceiver in me talking, but "may be" and "are" isn't that much of a distinction.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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I would say the choice should have mentioned "abstract" (like "abstract, but real" or something). But then he said he wanted it to be hard to choose.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
What is real? Is it defined by touch, taste, smell and see?

Does FEEL not count?!?

(says inferior Se)

:wink:

Let's just say, that question is part of what I want to explore with this thread/poll.

I believe there are various ways to define real, but that those ways can be rather specific.

Is something representationally real? I.e., it's actually out there in reality, like a liver in your body?

Or is it only pragmatically real? I.e., it's not actually out there in reality, but it does seem to be a rather accurate description of something that's happening... it seems to work...

Then, there's Eric's question:

abstract, but real (we are geared towards thinking only what is concrete is real!)

What if it's not necessarily visibly, or concretely out there, but, in some sense, it still is really out there, beyond mere pragmatic truth? Like, it might not be visible, but it's still there.

All good questions, imo. :cheese:

As for my beliefs, generally speaking, there are groupings of individuals who process information in similar fashion. You may call them functions, processes, watermelons, whatever you want, but yes, I believe these processes do exist.

Well, then vote!

:D
 

skylights

i love
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so/sx
my opinion doesn't really fit any of the categories.

they're just concepts, like "minutes" and "purple." they're real because they're distinctions we choose to make, and we can "measure" for them, but they're not tangible. i don't want to go around saying they're real because they're lines that certain groups of humans have drawn in the sand, and possibly not even well-defined at that, but they are very real in the sense of being an individual concept.

Eric B said:
abstract, but real

exactly.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
It is just the difference between "may be" and "are" pointing to something real?

:yes:

Maybe it is just the perceiver in me talking, but "may be" and "are" isn't that much of a distinction.

Hmm...

I don't know about blaming it on being a perceiver, but there is a definite distinction between the two.

To say they "are" pointing to something real is to imply a high level of definitude.

To say they "may be" pointing to something real is to imply a low level of definitude.

I did consider being more definitive about "may be", and saying "I'm 50/50", as I have in previous similar polls.

I decided against it, cuz saying one is 50/50 is even more definitive than just saying "may be", and I preferred leaving it a little open for interpretation.
 

skylights

i love
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Is something representationally real? I.e., it's actually out there in reality, like a liver in your body?

Or is it only pragmatically real? I.e., it's not actually out there in reality, but it does seem to be a rather accurate description of something that's happening... it seems to work...

i think it breaks down at a certain point. where exactly does your liver end? where do individual cells begin? where exactly do we draw boundary lines classifying one thing from the next? it seems so easy at the macro level to distinguish "pillow" from "18 wheeler", but when you get to really into tiny particles we all are essentially made of the same thing. so where does red stop being red and where does it start being orange, or purple? why didn't we choose red-orange as a color instead of red and orange? where does Ne end and Se begin?

reality... it's interpreted. we don't really know for sure if there is an objective reality. there is just what we hold to be true, and what we do not. certain things point us towards believing in a communal reality, but really the only excellent argument against solipsism is how incredibly not useful it is. (edit/note - i do not support solipsism)
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
my opinion doesn't really fit any of the categories.

they're just concepts, like "minutes" and "purple." they're real because they're distinctions we choose to make, and we can "measure" for them, but they're not tangible. i don't want to go around saying they're real because they're lines that certain groups of humans have drawn in the sand, and possibly not even well-defined at that, but they are very real in the sense of being an individual concept.

But see, minutes are very clear and distinct concepts, that actually point to something in reality: a certain amount of time passes, and it is not an hour, nor a second, nor a day, but a minute. It is clearly delineated, and, while it may be a human construct, it still describes an objective occurrence in reality: the passing of a specific amount of time.

Purple is a little less clear and distinct, as there are various shades of purple, and the color is also much more dependent on the observer than is the measurement of the passing of a minute.

In this sense, a minute is more "real" than "purple", although, I would argue that purple is still rather real, in and of itself.

My question is: where do the functions fall in this game?

Obviously, we have constructed the concept of the functions.

But are they actually out there in reality? Like a liver (which is most certainly real)? Or a minute?

Or are they more on a level of reality like purple? Or are they more real than purple? Or less real?

:thinking:
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Depends on what you define as real!

Can't vote until you define "real".

Jeez...

You're starting to sound like a Ti-dom...

Use your gut! Define it yourself! Look at what I've written above!

But vote...

:D
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
Functions aim at real targets, they just have a shaky shooting stance. On Se they hit the target, on Ni they overshoot to the moon.
 
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