User Tag List

View Poll Results: Do you believe the functions are (pointing to something) real?

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • I believe the functions are very real...

    9 23.08%
  • I believe the functions are pointing to something real, but I'm not sure whether they are real...

    11 28.21%
  • I believe the functions may be pointing to something real, and they may be real themselves...

    7 17.95%
  • I believe the functions may be pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves...

    16 41.03%
  • I believe the functions are totally bogus, and aren't pointing to anything real at all...

    4 10.26%
Multiple Choice Poll.
First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 48

  1. #11
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I wish I'd put "I believe the functions are pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves".
    How is that different from this:

    "I believe the functions may be pointing to something real, but they aren't real themselves... "

    It is just the difference between "may be" and "are" pointing to something real? Maybe it is just the perceiver in me talking, but "may be" and "are" isn't that much of a distinction.

  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    I would say the choice should have mentioned "abstract" (like "abstract, but real" or something). But then he said he wanted it to be hard to choose.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  3. #13
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    What is real? Is it defined by touch, taste, smell and see?
    Does FEEL not count?!?

    (says inferior Se)



    Let's just say, that question is part of what I want to explore with this thread/poll.

    I believe there are various ways to define real, but that those ways can be rather specific.

    Is something representationally real? I.e., it's actually out there in reality, like a liver in your body?

    Or is it only pragmatically real? I.e., it's not actually out there in reality, but it does seem to be a rather accurate description of something that's happening... it seems to work...

    Then, there's Eric's question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    abstract, but real (we are geared towards thinking only what is concrete is real!)
    What if it's not necessarily visibly, or concretely out there, but, in some sense, it still is really out there, beyond mere pragmatic truth? Like, it might not be visible, but it's still there.

    All good questions, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    As for my beliefs, generally speaking, there are groupings of individuals who process information in similar fashion. You may call them functions, processes, watermelons, whatever you want, but yes, I believe these processes do exist.
    Well, then vote!


  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    my opinion doesn't really fit any of the categories.

    they're just concepts, like "minutes" and "purple." they're real because they're distinctions we choose to make, and we can "measure" for them, but they're not tangible. i don't want to go around saying they're real because they're lines that certain groups of humans have drawn in the sand, and possibly not even well-defined at that, but they are very real in the sense of being an individual concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B
    abstract, but real
    exactly.

  5. #15
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    It is just the difference between "may be" and "are" pointing to something real?


    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Maybe it is just the perceiver in me talking, but "may be" and "are" isn't that much of a distinction.
    Hmm...

    I don't know about blaming it on being a perceiver, but there is a definite distinction between the two.

    To say they "are" pointing to something real is to imply a high level of definitude.

    To say they "may be" pointing to something real is to imply a low level of definitude.

    I did consider being more definitive about "may be", and saying "I'm 50/50", as I have in previous similar polls.

    I decided against it, cuz saying one is 50/50 is even more definitive than just saying "may be", and I preferred leaving it a little open for interpretation.

  6. #16
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Is something representationally real? I.e., it's actually out there in reality, like a liver in your body?

    Or is it only pragmatically real? I.e., it's not actually out there in reality, but it does seem to be a rather accurate description of something that's happening... it seems to work...
    i think it breaks down at a certain point. where exactly does your liver end? where do individual cells begin? where exactly do we draw boundary lines classifying one thing from the next? it seems so easy at the macro level to distinguish "pillow" from "18 wheeler", but when you get to really into tiny particles we all are essentially made of the same thing. so where does red stop being red and where does it start being orange, or purple? why didn't we choose red-orange as a color instead of red and orange? where does Ne end and Se begin?

    reality... it's interpreted. we don't really know for sure if there is an objective reality. there is just what we hold to be true, and what we do not. certain things point us towards believing in a communal reality, but really the only excellent argument against solipsism is how incredibly not useful it is. (edit/note - i do not support solipsism)

  7. #17
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Does FEEL not count?!?

    (says inferior Se)

    Depends on what you define as real!

    Well, then vote!

    Can't vote until you define "real". Reality can also be subjective, reliant on perception. Looping.

  8. #18
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    my opinion doesn't really fit any of the categories.

    they're just concepts, like "minutes" and "purple." they're real because they're distinctions we choose to make, and we can "measure" for them, but they're not tangible. i don't want to go around saying they're real because they're lines that certain groups of humans have drawn in the sand, and possibly not even well-defined at that, but they are very real in the sense of being an individual concept.
    But see, minutes are very clear and distinct concepts, that actually point to something in reality: a certain amount of time passes, and it is not an hour, nor a second, nor a day, but a minute. It is clearly delineated, and, while it may be a human construct, it still describes an objective occurrence in reality: the passing of a specific amount of time.

    Purple is a little less clear and distinct, as there are various shades of purple, and the color is also much more dependent on the observer than is the measurement of the passing of a minute.

    In this sense, a minute is more "real" than "purple", although, I would argue that purple is still rather real, in and of itself.

    My question is: where do the functions fall in this game?

    Obviously, we have constructed the concept of the functions.

    But are they actually out there in reality? Like a liver (which is most certainly real)? Or a minute?

    Or are they more on a level of reality like purple? Or are they more real than purple? Or less real?


  9. #19
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Depends on what you define as real!

    Can't vote until you define "real".
    Jeez...

    You're starting to sound like a Ti-dom...

    Use your gut! Define it yourself! Look at what I've written above!

    But vote...


  10. #20
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Functions aim at real targets, they just have a shaky shooting stance. On Se they hit the target, on Ni they overshoot to the moon.

Similar Threads

  1. How Do You Define the Functions?
    By Savage Idealist in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-12-2012, 12:29 AM
  2. How do you pronounce the functions?
    By IZthe411 in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-19-2010, 06:58 AM
  3. How much do you believe you are an ther type?
    By Lexlike in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-19-2008, 04:51 PM
  4. What direction do you see the USA going in, and where would you like it to go?
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 01:09 AM
  5. What ideas do you believe are innate?
    By Kiddo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-13-2008, 09:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO