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  1. #31
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Exploitive? In what way? It's a feel-good interaction between two adults, who know what's going on. You really have to read the individuals involved where some are fine and others take a more puritanical approach to life.

  2. #32
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Touchiness at work is kind of weird because each person has a specific comfort limit. Each person also has certain signals that indicate simple friendship and then a desire for more. However if those signals are not the same-you have confusion. The same can be said for light hearted banter or even just fun spirited interaction-thus caution seems like a good idea

    I hate to admit this, but once I started dressing up for work a bit more-suddenly the male executives would pay attention to me and actually interact with me more. It is kinda sad, but I guess this is just the way the world is.

    Having said this I have determined our Sales and Marketing department boosts sales via Dionysianistic fertility rites involving sex, drugs and booze.

  3. #33
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    Being logical people, we know there’s a time and place for flirting. Flirting, by definition, portrays sexual desire without serious intentions.

    On the other hand, "Dressing to impress", portrays a professional image that says one is serious, respectable, and confident. It can be an indication that one genuinely cares about how they are perceived. As a general rule, the outside is a reflection of the inside. Not the fairest of judgments, but it's a fact of life.

    As for flirting ones way into anything, though it may be very exciting, a wise man knows it's fruitless and the gratification is short-lived. There's a lifetime of fulfillment in being real, working hard, and leaving a legacy.

  4. #34
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    I think what it does is boost the ego. It gives the illusion that women are attracted sexually to the men even if they won't cross the lines for professional reasons. The ego is still boosted by the undercurrent of possibility. The problem is that the ego is equally offended when that undercurrent possibility is not offered. A woman can make male enemies based on that alone.
    True 'dat.

    What the article is suggesting is tacky and unethical. Also less than effective, according to at least one study...

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/workpl...sex-usat_x.htm

    Flirtatious behaviour in women is usually allied with submissive postures and being submissive in a competitive environment isn't usually the best way to get ahead.

    Other studies have suggested that flirting in the workplace is demoralising for women (though not men) probably because such environments increase the potential for sexual threat/harassment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #35
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm just offended that finding interest in what people say, asking them questions, smiling and making eye contact is apparently "flirting"

    seriously... I genuinely find people interesting and always smile and make eye contact with people I speak to... it shows that you value them as a person! What's worst is that I get interpreted as flirting by customers from time to time who seem to think that ANY girl who smiles at them and shows interest in their humanity is trying to get them in bed... and then they take that as an invitation :steam:

    I don't use a submissive posture or behaviors, just what I would call common friendliness, but apparently the article thinks otherwise :rolli:
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #36
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    There is already pressure for women to flirt in professional fields. It is a way of mixing the assertiveness of your skill and knowledge with passive, submissive gestures that are a reminder of one's 'gender role". I don't know what banking is like, but the performing arts can have a lot of this sort of thing going on. The communication can get convoluted. I think some women can handle it, but not all. I can't and have no desire to try. I also see it as a filter. If a potential employer wants someone who gives him that extra little tingle and not whoever is most qualified, then it doesn't sound like the right work environment for me. You present yourself that way, then you are expected to deliver - if not in an overtly sexual way, it is in a more subtle way to boost hormonal levels throughout the day and provide new fodder for sexual fantasies.
    I don't know about guys, but I see women doing this all the time at work, so this perspective is interesting and probably true.

    It's the subtle stuff that's not really well described in the article, which Annwn alludes to in one of her later posts, that I've noticed - that kind of eye contact, the hair thing, primping/preening gestures, etc. Women do this with people in more senior positions though I've had clients do it too, which has surprised me. It also seems the more attractive women are the ones who do it. It's as if they know they're attractive and use this as one of their techniques. It's all pretty harmless and I think it does work. I'd imagine they are selective in who they do it with though I don't really know. I would think it irritates other women more than anyone. There is an extremely capable INTP woman I know really well who gets very annoyed with women who do those things.

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  7. #37
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm just offended that finding interest in what people say, asking them questions, smiling and making eye contact is apparently "flirting"

    seriously... I genuinely find people interesting and always smile and make eye contact with people I speak to... it shows that you value them as a person! What's worst is that I get interpreted as flirting by customers from time to time who seem to think that ANY girl who smiles at them and shows interest in their humanity is trying to get them in bed... and then they take that as an invitation :steam:

    I don't use a submissive posture or behaviors, just what I would call common friendliness, but apparently the article thinks otherwise :rolli:
    I think it was pretty explicit:
    Maintain eye contact, smile, show interest by asking questions, listen. Then comes a dash of flirtatious nuance. Williams defines flirting as an effort to make the other person feel confident and attractive (the dictionary definition isn't far off: "to behave amorously without serious intent"), so she also advises giving an authentic compliment or offering a touch on the hand.
    Given that men can and do interpret common courtesy as serious flirtation, advising women to start offering compliments and deliberately (self-consciously) touching their male employers whilst dressing in deliberately provocative ways seems ill-advised, at best. Especially when the article points to the example of one woman for whom it back-fired: "when she came out of the restroom, one of the men cornered her and said, "I'll give you something to touch."

    I lolled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #38
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    At the end of the article Salome posted it said "Women need to be aware that when they say "It's a nice day," men will often conclude "She wants me,"

    I think this is my primary concern. When I first came to the forum there were several threads about ENFPs being flirty-it was weird as what they described to me was not flirting and did not indicate sexual interest. Yet some of the ENTPs said to them it was deemed interest and the concern was that others feelings would be hurt. When I observed myself, I realized that my natural Fi water sprinkler tendencies could and had been misunderstood in the past. It made me more careful about the messages I give across. On the other hand, I had often misunderstood ENTP men and the way they touch me as signs of interest and had actually been made quite uncomfortable at times.

    ^^This is just a specific example, type related example of how behaviors may be misunderstood even when no intent is implied. If intent to flirt really is present, then it can be even more confusing.

    Also, as an aside, when I see women being overtly flirty, not like whatever's description of friendly, but being delibretly provocative or acting weak and needy so they can get help I become annoyed. They are not taken seriously, even if the men do like checking out their bodies or getting an ego boost. That sort of ploy goes against everything women have worked to gain over the last 40 years or so, and it sends the message that we are not competent, thus must need help.

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