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  1. #71
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    That's interesting and where I become confused about my type. I can be a loving, caring individual, but if I am frustrated, tired or hungry, get.out.of.my.way. I also become very sarcastic and assholish. "Fuck Off", "Dick Head" and Fucktard" are a few of my favorite words when I am in a mood. I also like to say "You're not fucking dying, so get over it!" Can I still be an INFJ?

    Mind you I never say these things to or in front of our children, but I do mutter them when I am pissed off with adults. Driving is the worst for me and my mood.


    Actually I don't think I'm the most approachable person, but I think most of it is my introversion. Even while at work...I might have a few days where I'm totally in my head and I make very little contact with people around me, and I don't really initiate anything. I'm just...completely in my head. :-) Sometimes it's my mood, and I'm in a negative mood so I don't want to be around people. But other times I'm in a fine mood, I'm just wrapped up in my thoughts. I really think my ISFJ coworker/friend is perplexed by this and she sometimes approaches me with trepidation and caution. Late last week I was completely in my dreamworld/thoughtworld, and she approached me on day 2 of it and asked cautiously...'Are you ok? I thought something might be wrong??'...and I was surprised - I was like, 'Oh, I'm totally fine!! Sometimes I totally just become oblivious to everything and everyone around me!! It's not you!! :-)' Then I'll realize maybe I should go talk to her or others more often so they don't think I'm upset/mad with them!! :-)

    Ok..that anecdote aside..I still don't think I come across to most people as being fluffy. I'm not overly warm, I'm not charismatic and effervescent, I'm not 'fluffy' in the bubbly/goofy/huggy sense. I keep most of my emotions under the surface, but I don't think I can hide them, really. They just don't have free reign in how I respond to people. I imagine some people might think I was a T if they met me in person and I wasn't talking about myself and my own processes/thoughts/feelings at all (and also, I think a lot of people associate 'F' with more of your extroverted feelers, and how the Fe/Fi displays with an extrovert. Introverted feelers are going to appear differently).

    Oh, and driving -- hahaha -- I'll often mutter 'Dumbass' under my breath when I'm driving around town and I get annoyed with various drivers. :-)
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  2. #72
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I had a half finished thought but what I wanted to add is that you can be very emotional and not very bubbly. I joked earlier that if we were talking about how E/I affects the equation we could make more generalizations.

    Also, I think there is a lot to be said for how 'detachment' or really not being aware of and/or not caring about social dynamics and mores can really free you to be yourself. "For better or worse".

    An F, or maybe an EF, is more likely to be highly aware and personally invested in their social standing and interpersonal dynamics. And care a lot about it. ENFP hypervigilance comes to mind. This can spur people on to be very charming because they are so invested and aware OR become very shy and withdrawn for the same reason.

    However, being divested of the social repercussions of a situation, either because you won't feel them or you can't foresee them, means you act just like you. This can come off as confidence/assertiveness and have 'positive' results OR rub people the wrong way, come off as awkward, and even embarass or turn off those around you.

    Someone else mentioned how their ENTP friend is more outgoing than their ENFP friend because the T doesn't care about social awkwardness whereas the F gets caught up in it. SO TRUE.

    However, this doesn't just speak to T versus F. I think most people can recall times when they were relaxed to 'be themselves' or be more free socially versus times they became nervous or more invested in a situation (first date, job interview) where you become more reserved/more aware of your actions and impressions.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Yearh the Fluffy Ts and Cold Fs thing is kind of an ongoing clichee within MBTI. Even von Franz wrote a book about that somewhere in the 20'ies or 30'ies adressing exactly that.

    Anyway, its sort of the state of affairs in my social circle as well. The discourse continuously locks feelers in roles where they are expected to provide gaity and warmth, or emotional support after someone is on the recieving end of a critique. Sometimes, they are even assigned magical powers, - much like smurfs

    I once wanted to start a discussion with my friends where the premise basically was: "Please explain how feeling can be counted on to be rational and objective, because when you read about the feeling function it seems that it really isn't." That didn't go so well: Only a few thinkers responded and when I pointed this out, one thinker told me: "Yearh but you initiated the discussion on T terms". - I don't know exactly what that was supposed to mean but I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts.

    (By the way I know all about Jung's definition of Feeling as being a rational function, but in that case Jung defined rationality as the quality of being internally consistant. Which is not what I am getting at above. Sharia Law is pretty internally consistant, after all, yet very irrational when it comes down to it.)

    In my experience, attempting to discuss feeling and feelers objectively is a discoursive nightmare: You immediatly get hit with the same accusations that prevent gender difference, race difference, intelligence etc. from being discussed rationally. Furthermore, you also get kind of incriminated ad hominem; casted as a fun-spoiler, unable to grasp the charms and enjoyment of feeling. (Cue Monty Python's "Logic versus Sex").

    Incidentally, I am not saying, that there is necessarily anything to racism, sexism etc. - just like I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts. But I find it striking that some people employ the same rhetoric in the "defense" of feeling as they would employ in their defense of any other group that has traditionally been percieved as weak (that would be women, Africans etc.). So what I would like was some good, rational arguments on the merits of Feeling that avoid the championing of feelers as human cuddle toys.

    It may sound provocative, but believe me, I have asked and read around and am yet to find such arguments.
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  4. #74
    Member Othon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Isn't that because you're a T?
    No, I need to change that.
    Morgenstern ach scheine auf die liebste meine

  5. #75
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    That's interesting and where I become confused about my type. I can be a loving, caring individual, but if I am frustrated, tired or hungry, get.out.of.my.way. I also become very sarcastic and assholish. "Fuck Off", "Dick Head" and Fucktard" are a few of my favorite words when I am in a mood. I also like to say "You're not fucking dying, so get over it!" Can I still be an INFJ?

    Mind you I never say these things to or in front of our children, but I do mutter them when I am pissed off with adults. Driving is the worst for me and my mood.
    I have to watch myself at times because I can be very sarcastic and unkind when I'm miffed and say things I wish I hadn't said.

    For instance, I once asked the poor gal filling in at my kids' front office at school "Have you had problems with parents bringing cupcakes to school then shooting and molesting the children?"

    I was screaming at myself the whole time I was saying it to STFU. I knew it wasn't her fault they wouldn't let me take the cupcakes to my daughter's class, but I was just so frustrated with the situation.

    Fortunately I was able to restrain myself from pointing out that if I wanted to hurt children, I could just bring poison cupcakes, since they were fine with the cupcakes going to the classroom, just not the parents. Saying something like that could have probably gotten me in jail.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #76
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I have to watch myself at times because I can be very sarcastic and unkind when I'm miffed and say things I wish I hadn't said.

    For instance, I once asked the poor gal filling in at my kids' front office at school "Have you had problems with parents bringing cupcakes to school then shooting and molesting the children?"

    I was screaming at myself the whole time I was saying it to STFU. I knew it wasn't her fault they wouldn't let me take the cupcakes to my daughter's class, but I was just so frustrated with the situation.

    Fortunately I was able to restrain myself from pointing out that if I wanted to hurt children, I could just bring poison cupcakes, since they were fine with the cupcakes going to the classroom, just not the parents. Saying something like that could have probably gotten me in jail.
    OK why wouldn't they let you take cupcakes to the classroom? Are parents not allowed to enter during school hours? That would totally piss me off!

    I am at times guilty of using logic and reason with the school staff. It's very easy because I've noticed that most of the teachers and staff aren't too bright. When I confront them and respond to them in a certain way, they usually just kind of stare at me and appear confused. Thankfully our children are learning "people" skills at home and they are quite good at detecting sarcasm thanks to L and I.

    It is too bad that we don't live closer to one another, as I know we'd get along very well.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  7. #77
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    OK why wouldn't they let you take cupcakes to the classroom? Are parents not allowed to enter during school hours? That would totally piss me off!
    There had been some kind of scare or something. I can't remember which one it was. It wasn't local or related to cupcakes, but they were freaking out and not letting parents in the classrooms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    I am at times guilty of using logic and reason with the school staff. It's very easy because I've noticed that most of the teachers and staff aren't too bright. When I confront them and respond to them in a certain way, they usually just kind of stare at me and appear confused. Thankfully our children are learning "people" skills at home and they are quite good at detecting sarcasm thanks to L and I.
    When they say they want critical thinking I think "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Some of them appear to be impervious to logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    It is too bad that we don't live closer to one another, as I know we'd get along very well.
    We would, but who would bail us out of jail?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #78
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post

    We would, but who would bail us out of jail?
    Ivy to the rescue!
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #79
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    Re: not allowing cupcakes

    In many school districts they have banned cupcakes, due to severe food allergies. The ban is usually no homemade food.

    Re: not allowing parents

    The school district may not be up on custody situations and the like.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    That's interesting and where I become confused about my type. I can be a loving, caring individual, but if I am frustrated, tired or hungry, get.out.of.my.way. I also become very sarcastic and assholish. "Fuck Off", "Dick Head" and Fucktard" are a few of my favorite words when I am in a mood. I also like to say "You're not fucking dying, so get over it!" Can I still be an INFJ?

    Mind you I never say these things to or in front of our children, but I do mutter them when I am pissed off with adults. Driving is the worst for me and my mood.
    My husband is INFJ and he freely uses the F word all day long, for a variety of meanings, depending on tone and inflection. It is a real art he has perfected.

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