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  1. #41
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Curious... Would that mean that INTJs do not feel emotions as easily, or do not feel emotions at all? Meaning, is all sentiment from one based on thought mainly, vs heart.
    All types feel some level of discernible emotion - INTJs included.

    What we label emotion is really a series of complex instinctive behaviors learned from historical experience - the comprehension of which has organically sharpened into sophisticated, chemically-linked, biological adaptations.

    To take it a step further (while simplifying my base considerably), I'd wager emotion is fundamentally responsible for what is commonly understood as "morality".

    Conversely, protection of socio-political hierarchies (often as an indirect method towards self-preservation) could be distinguished as "ethics" - likely a T domain.


    I suspect the notion of an "emotionless" type is less based on empirical properties than the active cultivation of a mythos.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    All types feel some level of discernible emotion - INTJs included.

    What we label emotion is really a series of complex instinctive behaviors learned from historical experience - the comprehension of which has organically sharpened into sophisticated, chemically-linked, biological adaptations.

    To take it a step further (while simplifying my base considerably), I'd wager emotion is fundamentally responsible for what is commonly understood as "morality".

    Conversely, protection of socio-political hierarchies (often as an indirect method towards self-preservation) could be distinguished as "ethics" - likely a T domain.


    I suspect the notion of an "emotionless" type is less based on empirical properties than the active cultivation of a mythos.
    I did not mean INTJs were emotionless, very much doubt anyone makes decisions based on thought or feeling alone - it is usually a mix of the both.

    When I asked if INTJs do not "feel" emotions, I was questioning, where is the origination of the emotions for the Ts, vs the Fs. In response to the OP, it is merely the differences in our seats that causes one to regard the other as cold, isn't it.

    The emotions remain the same (and you described what are emotions beautifully). The same as ethics and morals are governing principles. But the seats of origin are separate domains, as you pointed out. But they are both about the preservation of order, isn't it?

    So I'm not certain what draws the line between what is thought, and what is emotion, or are they not derivatives of each other. Could one exist without the other?

    "Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings: always darker, emptier and simpler." -Nietzsche

    Making sense?

  3. #43
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I did not mean INTJs were emotionless, very much doubt anyone makes decisions based on thought or feeling alone - it is usually a mix of the both.

    When I asked if INTJs do not "feel" emotions, I was questioning, where is the origination of the emotions for the Ts, vs the Fs. In response to the OP, it is merely the differences in our seats that causes one to regard the other as cold, isn't it.

    The emotions remain the same (and you described what are emotions beautifully). The same as ethics and morals are governing principles. But the seats of origin are separate domains, as you pointed out. But they are both about the preservation of order, isn't it?

    So I'm not certain what draws the line between what is thought, and what is emotion, or are they not derivatives of each other. Could one exist without the other?

    "Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings: always darker, emptier and simpler." -Nietzsche

    Making sense?

    You could not have either one or the other. xxFx types build emotions, and then use thinking to justify. xxTx types build thoughts, and then emotions to justify. It is a reciprocal system, in which the dominant function determines which faculty has precedence.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  4. #44
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I
    The emotions remain the same (and you described what are emotions beautifully). The same as ethics and morals are governing principles. But the seats of origin are separate domains, as you pointed out. But they are both about the preservation of order, isn't it?

    So I'm not certain what draws the line between what is thought, and what is emotion, or are they not derivatives of each other. Could one exist without the other?
    "Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings: always darker, emptier and simpler." -Nietzsche
    Thank you for your kind words, aelan.

    To your question, it seems unlikely that either process would flourish without its present counterpart.

    Absent from emotion, logic might simply function as an endless interplay of detached stimulus-response models wherein motivation is seasoned around the probability of systemic success v. failure with little creative zeal paid to the diversities in abstract thought emotion currently grants our logical sensibilities.

    If we were to consider life without reason, our decisions would likely be governed by polarities in mood. As emotional depth provides powerful clarity into imaginative, aroma-rich landscapes singularly flowered by the color of our immediate mood, so too would we be imprisoned by the very impulses we normally rely on to gain artistic perspective.

  5. #45
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Wait...

    There are SERIOUS ESTPs???

    I thought that was a myth made to scare children?

    As for type versus behaviour, MBTI is cognative wiring. It DOES influence your behaviour but not in specific. Hence how I'm an INTP who likes to be in a group... just a particular one with particular people who I've vetted

    Oh and serious Fs are just plain scary! It's like living next to a volcano and having no house insurance!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Wait...

    There are SERIOUS ESTPs???

    I thought that was a myth made to scare children?

    As for type versus behaviour, MBTI is cognative wiring. It DOES influence your behaviour but not in specific. Hence how I'm an INTP who likes to be in a group... just a particular one with particular people who I've vetted

    Oh and serious Fs are just plain scary! It's like living next to a volcano and having no house insurance!
    My father is an ESTP. He can get serious every now and then.

  7. #47
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    My father is an ESTP. He can get serious every now and then.
    Well quit nicking his sweets and he should lighten up
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #48
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My ESTP grandpa had a more of a dignified southern gentleman persona, so he did not come off as especially funny. He would tell jokes, funny stories, and tall tales and he loved to take us out to touristy places and restaurants, but he was never one to act silly. He was really a character, though.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    My ESTP grandpa had a more of a dignified southern gentleman persona, so he did not come off as especially funny. He would tell jokes, funny stories, and tall tales and he loved to take us out to touristy places and restaurants, but he was never one to act silly. He was really a character, though.
    Dignified southern gentleman.

    They don't make them like they used to. *deflates*

    Thank you for your kind words, aelan.

    To your question, it seems unlikely that either process would flourish without its present counterpart.

    Absent from emotion, logic might simply function as an endless interplay of detached stimulus-response models wherein motivation is seasoned around the probability of systemic success v. failure with little creative zeal paid to the diversities in abstract thought emotion currently grants our logical sensibilities.

    If we were to consider life without reason, our decisions would likely be governed by polarities in mood. As emotional depth provides powerful clarity into imaginative, aroma-rich landscapes singularly flowered by the color of our immediate mood, so too would we be imprisoned by the very impulses we normally rely on to gain artistic perspective.
    You're welcome, Night, it was little more than what was deserved.

    That's what I was driving at. Ergo a fluffy T and a cold F, is but a part of a mature F and a mature T, beyond the stereotypes. A life without either reason or emotion would be a single tonal landscape. While probably easier to navigate, it will lack the clarity and depth an aural mix of thought and emotion could give.

    All Fs have a T shadow, and all Ts, an F familiar. So perhaps the challenge of being human, is in developing the shadow to become an aid, vs. the reduction of ourselves.

  10. #50
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Are people perhaps resting in the shade of the misconception that Ts are rational and Fs feel?

    Maybe that's why people don't understand irrational actions from Ts or emotions and how an F who rationalises becomes a T in some people's eyes?

    Just a thought.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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