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  1. #91
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    ESFP- The best at quick, simple deep jabs.

    ENFP- The best large scale, complicated attacks that effectively break people down.
    This makes us seem so Machiavellian and cruel...but you did say 'the best' so I guess I should thank you. LOL.

    I will say though that when it comes to emotional warfare and hitting people where it hurts, you don't want to mess with someone who can "see" you. And ENFPs can really "see" people and "get" interpersonal dynamics.

    Luckily, ENFPs are pretty nice and cuddly and like using these gifts to make people feel better not worse, and in my own case, I am a big freakin' wuss. :rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    This, among other things, is why I think my M-I-L is a T. She can insult me and I won't figure out I've been insulted for 30 minutes or more. But she has one of the most explosive tempers I've ever seen. And she blows up frequently, like full-blown temper tantrums complete with yelling, cursing, and slamming things around on a near-daily basis. I honestly can't even imagine the kind of energy it must take. I am totally capable of flying off the handle, but it happens infrequently and I'm much more likely to be snarky than explosive.

    I just don't think temper is a T/F thing. It's something seperate and your environment growing up can influence it as well as your level of emotional maturity and the effectiveness of your coping skills.[/
    I totally agree with this.

    I also think T's can be very emotional, even "irrationally" so. I think if you are disconnected from your own emotions or lack much intrapersonal and interpersonal intelligence, you are more likely to explode and go into what I call 'pure asshole behavior' and get very heat up and emotional. This is contrasted with the stereotype in the OP of a "cold" and socially clueless T who just doesn't care or is unaware/uninterested in how they come off.

    I know an irrationally emotional NT who frequently misreads social cues and gets deeply insulted for imagined sleights and then flips into pure asshole mode, screaming, name-calling, breaking things, threatening bodily harm, just going nuts. Then 10 minutes later act like nothing's happened, no apology, no explanation, not even a mention and the cycle continues. Sometimes there's not even a cue for the crazy behavior, he'll just launch into a tantrum out of nowhere. He's completely unaware that his actions have consequences and doesn't realize the emotional and social wreckage he's just caused and acts like everything should return to normal because he's no longer angry. The kicker is that otherwise he always talks about how something "doesn't make sense" and it's "not logical" and how "any idiot" could do this or that and how he's so much more intelligent than other people.

    I honestly think he's emotionally retarded and I hope he never has children.
    Last edited by CzeCze; 02-08-2008 at 06:34 AM.

  2. #92
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I know an irrationally emotional NT who frequently misreads social cues and gets deeply insulted for imagined sleights and then flips into pure asshole mode, screaming, name-calling, breaking things, threatening bodily harm, just going nuts. Then 10 minutes later act like nothing's happened, no apology, no explanation, not even a mention and the cycle continues. Sometimes there's not even a cue for the crazy behavior, he'll just launch into a tantrum out of nowhere. He's completely unaware that his actions have consequences and doesn't realize the emotional and social wreckage he's just caused and acts like everything should return to normal because he's no longer angry.
    Does this person do things like this in public? How have they avoided going to jail? Don't you usually get locked up if you act like that?

  3. #93
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I've a similar nonchalance; very little gets to me.

    I'd imagine that all types - when properly stimulated - share the possibility for emotional outburst; context seems the primary variable.

    For example, my wife can (occasionally) rend my stoicism with little effort - certainly to the extent that I'd respond with an emotionally-charged behavior. Her precision needn't be specific and is usually something simple (nagging/not responding to my nagging ).

    Conversely, the same essential formula/line of wording from (very probably) most anyone else in my life would elicit a dampened emotional response and/or outright dismissal.

    The central negotiator seems familiarity - the closer we are, the deeper the wound, I find.
    I agree with all of the above.

    PS One way I like to playfully get a rise out of Limey is make him watch LOST with me and convincingly tell him that he and Ben (the one with the raw eyes) are long lost identical twins. Unfortunately he's privy to my little game now, but it was fun while it lasted.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  4. #94
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    T and F are types of cognitive processing, right? Every brain is hardwired with emotional processing centers that emit chemicals which affect the body, etc. Body chemistry, as well as environmental conditioning, affects how easily we cry, exhibit tempers, enthusiasm, etc. From what I understand T vs. F is equivalent to logic/objectivity vs. value-based reasoning - or something along those lines. Many of the words used in MBTI really throw people off because they are assumed to possess the more common definitions. The same is true of J and P. J is not about being judgmental, it is about the tendency to be more structured and to more readily seek closure. In the same way Feeling is not emotion, but a cognitive process that accounts for approximate/subjective data including how people view the world individually and the personal impact of events and information as opposed to pure logic and reason.

    I have wondered if the T and F axis could be compared to having mastery over either the micro-environment of the individual/s perspective, vs. the macro-environment of objective reality. Both environments are nearly infinite in their nuance and data. Some people have more natural command of how those internal environments work - that is, how emotions, personal reasoning, environment, etc. impact the way reality is experienced. Such people are inclined towards empathy and a willingness to relate to people within their contexts that only approximate reality. In contrast a T is concerned with objectivity and the truths that hold regardless of the distortion of individual perception. Logic, reason, these apply to all individuals regardless of their current emotional states or the impact of their upbringing. That focus on objectivity could be characterized as a drive to master the macro-environment that transcends individuals. What do you think?
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  5. #95
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I agree, toonia. It's almost like a parallel between N and S. S focusing on the specific, N focusing on the general. T focuses on dealing with what's beyond an individual. F focuses on what's happening within the individual, yourself or someone else. It seems from this that in some ways F parallels S's detail/microcosmic focus, but not its concrete/impersonal nature. T parallels S's concrete/impersonal nature, but not it's detail/microcosmic focus. This makes them opposite processes. To summarize:

    S: detailed/microcosmic, concrete/impersonal
    T: general/macrocosmic, concrete/impersonal
    F: detailed/microcosmic, ethereal/personal
    N: general/macrocosmic, ethereal/personal

    So it basically means that each process has something in common with another, and is also different from another.

    Come to think of it... do these classifications make any sense to you at all from experience?

    NF: ethereal/personal
    NT: general/macrocosmic
    ST: concrete/impersonal
    SF: detailed/microcosmic

  6. #96
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    T and F are types of cognitive processing, right? Every brain is hardwired with emotional processing centers that emit chemicals which affect the body, etc. Body chemistry, as well as environmental conditioning, affects how easily we cry, exhibit tempers, enthusiasm, etc. From what I understand T vs. F is equivalent to logic/objectivity vs. value-based reasoning - or something along those lines. Many of the words used in MBTI really throw people off because they are assumed to possess the more common definitions. The same is true of J and P. J is not about being judgmental, it is about the tendency to be more structured and to more readily seek closure. In the same way Feeling is not emotion, but a cognitive process that accounts for approximate/subjective data including how people view the world individually and the personal impact of events and information as opposed to pure logic and reason.

    I have wondered if the T and F axis could be compared to having mastery over either the micro-environment of the individual/s perspective, vs. the macro-environment of objective reality. Both environments are nearly infinite in their nuance and data. Some people have more natural command of how those internal environments work - that is, how emotions, personal reasoning, environment, etc. impact the way reality is experienced. Such people are inclined towards empathy and a willingness to relate to people within their contexts that only approximate reality. In contrast a T is concerned with objectivity and the truths that hold regardless of the distortion of individual perception. Logic, reason, these apply to all individuals regardless of their current emotional states or the impact of their upbringing. That focus on objectivity could be characterized as a drive to master the macro-environment that transcends individuals. What do you think?
    I think you bring up a lot of excellent points. Very good post.
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  7. #97
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Nicely said, guys.

    As a sidebar, has anyone ever met an F/T hybrid whose command granted approximate ability to abstract both emotion and logic?

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