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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    How many conclusions do we have?
    Only one.
    It is there already.
    You were not.

  2. #12
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'll start. This is the final scene from The Usual Suspects (w/ spoiler). I believe this is an example of "connecting the dots" via sensing. Agree/disagree? I'm thinking problem-solving would be the easiest area to distinguish sensing from intuition because you can follow mental processes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_656...eature=related

    This is definitely sensing!

    I just wrote some similar thoughts over the last 2 days in this thread, starting on page 3.

    Just like the guy sees the name in on the board, and all of a sudden all of these things start to come back to him, all of the dots are connected- THAT is a good example of Si in action.

  3. #13
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I know myself, the beginning of the movie I'm just taking it all in. Usually in the beginning it's a set up for things to come. I'm less likely to pay much attention to the people (unless attractive) and even then it's her and not what she's doing LOL. Eventually, though I'll settle in, and pay attention to more of the characters.

    ZBuck- I couldn't put together much with the clips of that first movie. Obviously the stuff they're getting in the mail is going to lead to something. What exactly that is we'd have to tune in. I would have to get past the subtitles, since I would want to be able to understand what they're saying less than what they're bodies are saying. The second is definitely symbolism. I think the girl was using Ne- that 'change' of the clothes line to that wilted looking flower threw her for a loop. Since I was paying attention to the action- which I usually do when I'm taking something in initially, I wasn't sure if she was the same girl at the beginning and end. I'm assuming she was, but I didn't look at the clip again.

  4. #14
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What I am focusing on in his statement that I think parallels what I'm trying to get is when people say "details" as a buzzword for sensing and "big picture" as a buzzword for intuition is there really no such thing as a detail or the big picture. It's just a matter of what you choose to focus on, what you choose to see, what you choose to notice. Everything that you needed to see and notice was there all along, nothing less nothing more just what are you concentrating on.
    My understanding of S vs N are 2 roads leading you to the same place, but both involve taking in the information and a level of interest.

    I'm not a big film watcher, so I don't have anything to contribute, but I can chime in on whatever people put in here.

    Kdude that's too long LOL.

  5. #15
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm not sure myself, I think I'm trying to make something that has been historically unclear regarding sensing and intuition clear. I don't believe it has to be unclear. I'll let someone else explain what I'm getting at. When people use examples of intuition, I'm a little bit concerned they will veer into you just have to get it or it's hard to explain as a way to bypass an actual justification for why something is intuition. I think your second example didn't bypass that at all...maybe she couldn't explain why she felt so apprehensive towards the tree but it didn't come out of nowhere.

    What I am focusing on in his statement that I think parallels what I'm trying to get is when people say "details" as a buzzword for sensing and "big picture" as a buzzword for intuition is there really no such thing as a detail or the big picture. It's just a matter of what you choose to focus on, what you choose to see, what you choose to notice. Everything that you needed to see and notice was there all along, nothing less nothing more just what are you concentrating on.

    Okay, I gotcha. Makes total sense. I agree, it’s a good idea to clarify exactly why a scene seems to demonstrate either intuition or sensing. I agree that ‘details’ and ‘big picture’ are buzzwords that are overused to the point of obscurity. Both ends of the S/N spectrum notice the same amount of details, it’s just the nature of the details that vary.

    Now it’s really sticking in my craw that I can’t figure out how to articulate why I think the first example demonstrates intuition, because it seems like such a good illustration of intuition to me. But I can't find any pertinent clips of scenes anyway, just the trailer, so oh well.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    This may be slightly off the point, but what is this? Sensing.. Intuition? Sometimes I get impressions of things (I'm a musician as well, and I pick up on motifs with objects and people.. but not nearly as cool as the scene below). I could see the same sort of thing play out with an ISFP artist honing in on some part of a person's character and painting a portrait, or an interior designer advising someone what would fit their style.. A lot of everyday stuff actually. An stereotypical ESTP conman who sees an easy mark by drawing various associations in the person's manner. They couldn't all be N, right?

    Anyways, I'm trying to provide proteanmix a less action-oriented scene that illustrates a sensor being detailed, "connecting-the-dots", and making associations, but I'm kind of at a loss.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sv4r8PPTPQ].[/youtube]

  7. #17
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    This may be slightly off the point, but what is this? Sensing.. Intuition? Sometimes I get impressions of things (I'm a musician as well, and I pick up on motifs with objects and people.. but not nearly as cool as the scene below). I could see the same sort of thing play out with an ISFP artist honing in on some part of a person's character and painting a portrait, or an interior designer advising someone what would fit their style.. A lot of everyday stuff actually. An stereotypical ESTP conman who sees an easy mark by drawing various associations in the person's manner. They couldn't all be N, right?

    Anyways, I'm trying to provide proteanmix a less action-oriented scene that illustrates a sensor being detailed, "connecting-the-dots", and making associations, but I'm kind of at a loss.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sv4r8PPTPQ].[/youtube]
    That can be S or N, IMO. The people's faces and actions could take him back to things he's seen before (sensing) or it could be a quick intuitive estimate.

  8. #18
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Another one I can think of is a scene from the most recent Harry Potter movie where Hermoine says, "Actually I'm highly logical which allows me to look past extraneous detail and perceive clearly that which others overlook." Hermoine is usually typed as an SJ which makes this statement a typological oxymoron.
    Maybe she's an ESTJ asserting her belief that Te is superior to Si?

    Like something an ESTJ might say to an IS_J "I can look past Si blah blah blah to see the truth (Te).
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ESTJs do override Si, but I'm not sure if it works like that or not. A Si dom isn't necessarily hung up on details so much as some familiarity or consistency. I remember reading about one anecdote of an ISTJ making their rounds to work and dropping coins into the jar of the same homeless guy every day. While an ESTJ may do it to a point, and then finally flip and tell the guy to get a job. The ISTJ might override the temptation. Both see a "truth" to things though.

    I'm derailing now though.

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post

    What I am focusing on in his statement that I think parallels what I'm trying to get is when people say "details" as a buzzword for sensing and "big picture" as a buzzword for intuition is there really no such thing as a detail or the big picture. It's just a matter of what you choose to focus on, what you choose to see, what you choose to notice. Everything that you needed to see and notice was there all along, nothing less nothing more just what are you concentrating on.
    So I think it is pretty well understood in cognitive studies, the role that attentional selection has upon what data you gather from your surroundings and how much of that is observed consciously vs uncosnciously. If I get to make stuff up I would say I miss 90% of the details of my surroundings because I am so busy looking inside of my head at what my surroundings could be....

    NLP also uses the terms "chunk-up" or "chunk-down" as ways to approach a topic from the details to the big picture, however the way they use the term entangles Te and Ti I would guess as well.

    I cant think of fictional characters in isolation....but for certain MBTI types, I noted that the main character in the "elegance of the hedgehog" book was amazingly NiFeTi and it was so fascinating to step through her mind and see things she noted that I would never observe about my world. There was so much detail and precision, but grace and appreciation for specificity. It was actually depressing as I saw myself in some of the people around her that she disdained as crude and vulgar.

    Also to read poetry by Charles Bukowski-an ISFP?-is so incredibly Se heavy from my perspective. It is stunning different from what I would see.

    Reading books by CH Cherryh makes me have a better understanding of how Fe plays a role in the minds of ENTPs, and again very different ideas.

    Books by Ayn Rand are always interesting as well as they stress the INTJ thought process, especially the Ni visions and context-shift-spins but sprinkled throughout the story I note Se refs here and there-for instance in one scene the INTJs are a at a dinner party and one says "Do you ever get the feeling they will never exeprience and enjoy this particular moment to the degree that we do? That they cant ever appreciate the sheer beauty of the surroundings and taste of the champagn on their tongues as they are too busy never seeing reality?" (or something like that....)

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