Introverted Feeling: A Quick Reference Guide

[uumlau]

It donned on me reading Psychological Types when Jung refers to a very much introverting-introvert that they display the opposite tertiary attitude...

ie:
More Balanced INTJ -> Ni -> Te -> Fi -> Se
More Introverted INTJ -> Ni -> Te -> Fe -> Se

That the more introverted INTJ stops voicing their beliefs and merely becomes more socially compliant by being more introvert and brings out their inner persona publically by extroverting but others may find it very 'strong' and unsympathetic.

Whereas for the ENTP...

More Extroverted ENTP -> Ne -> Ti -> Fi -> Si
More Balanced ENTP -> Ne -> Ti -> Fe -> Si

That by bringing the ENTP down to a more balanced position they relate to others better; the opposite directional effect!

Just an idea that's in my head right now. And I don't think it's so wrong when it comes to some kind of cognitive/behavioural linkage. Anyway I can't remember why I posted this here but I have a feeling it has something to do with the topic at hand.

That's an interesting analysis. Would you share the section of Jung that implies this, please?

 

[InvisibleJim]

In one sentence of Psychological Types - 1921 - Jung states that for an extreme extrovert all three auxiliary functions would be introverted: 'In the case of highly extroverted cognition:' "most differentiated function is always employed in an extraverted way, whereas the inferior functions are introverted". And then goes on to explain the 'Extroverted Intuitive Perceiver' in depth (in effect and ENTP) as Ne - Ti - Fi - Si and an 'Introverted Intuitive Thinker' in depth as Ti - Ne - Fe - Se. Alas I am in work at the moment so I don't have my copy of it handy, but I'll have a look at it this evening.

It would also seem to me that originally Isabell Briggs followed Jungs interpretation that the tertiary had the opposite direction of the dominant function; however the Meyers Briggs Institute in common with most modern Jungians believe that the tertiary function has the same attitude as the primary.

My question is; could it take on different attitudes and be forced by the primary OR the secondary depending upon what is required situationally?

Could its attitude act as both the creative pivot and also a weakness as described by Beebe, but was Beebe wrong to assume this was as a consequence of its nature but actually the 'over excited' individual muddling the functional use up, displaying solid belief in the excited mode in the case of an extroverted thinker and an introverted thinker moving towards balance? Why else do you see so many young INTJs and ENTPs on mbti boards telling us all what they believe/think and that everyone else is wrong? An Fe/Fi Guddle... empathise with my beliefs on the matter is the war cry.

Briggs Reference:

Myers, Isabel Briggs; Mary H. McCaulley (1985) (in English). Manual: A Guide to the Development and Use of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (2nd edition ed.). Palo Alto, CA: Consulting Psychologist Press. pp. 52. ISBN 0-89106-027-8.

 

[Seymour]

It would also seem to me that originally Isabell Briggs followed Jungs interpretation that the tertiary had the opposite direction of the dominant function; however the Meyers Briggs Institute in common with most modern Jungians believe that the tertiary function has the same attitude as the primary.

Well, the MBTI Manual, 3rd Edition, still seems to follow the Jungian model (see p 31, for example). The official CPP stance seems to be that all but the dominant function have the opposite attitude.

My question is; could it take on different attitudes and be forced by the primary OR the secondary depending upon what is required situationally?

I suspect there's more flexibility than the purists would think. I'm personally not sure whether it's more situational, or less situationally flexible but based on individual development or inclination.

 

[Kasper]

OT split out left in the graveyard, keep it civil y’all.

 

[Chloe]

ummm, oommm.... where did the text from OP disappear ?

seems like i am really missing something here drama and shits.

 

[Thalassa]

LOL ...congrats to the OP (or to the mods) for making this thread absolutely hilarious

 

[October Rust]

Hahaha.. indeed.

 

[skylights]

i take full credit for the quote in the OP

though would also like to point out that "likes to seem" =/= "is"




so InvisibleJim, if what Jung wrote is assumed to be true, does that also mean a very close to introverted Exxx will end up forcing the tertiary even more extraverted than normal? i would imagine so.

i agree with Seymour that things are probably pretty flexible... though speaking of, it raises an interesting question about the theory of functional roles. for an extremely extraverted ENTP, if Fe switches to Fi in the tertiary/Relief/Puer role, does Fe exchange and become the Deceiving/Trickster?

 

[Chloe]

i LOVE to seem whiney and self absorbed.

 

[InvisibleJim]

i take full credit for the quote in the OP

though would also like to point out that "likes to seem" =/= "is"




so InvisibleJim, if what Jung wrote is assumed to be true, does that also mean a very close to introverted Exxx will end up forcing the tertiary even more extraverted than normal? i would imagine so.

i agree with Seymour that things are probably pretty flexible... though speaking of, it raises an interesting question about the theory of functional roles. for an extremely extraverted ENTP, if Fe switches to Fi in the tertiary/Relief/Puer role, does Fe exchange and become the Deceiving/Trickster?

Yes, that seems to be the way I'm taking it for now.

 

[wolfy]

I can give us a definition of Fi everyone should agree to:

Introverted Feeling is an internal judgement system based upon what your instincts tell you is right and wrong regardless of the needs of group dynamics.

That seems a pretty good description to me.

How does that translate into someone who has a harder time expressing this then? If they have the courage to define themselves and other things on the outside regardless of group dynamics, then why is Fi generally described as "ineffable" or even non-assertive? Apparently, I mean. From my point of view, someone like that is already making a bold step in going there in the first place. Yet they're NOT assertive and can't really talk about it? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think you could take non assertive as meaning live and let live. That is how I see that aspect. Generally people see the world and others through their own eyes. So somebody thinking that way could tend to also give others that same space.

 

[Jaguar]

i take full credit for the quote in the OP

though would also like to point out that "likes to seem" =/= "is"

How can you take full credit for the quote in the original post?
The original post was edited by highlander on 11-23 with no reason for the edit.

He took your quote out of the original post:

Fi likes to seem whiny and self-absorbed

The words in the original post now read:

Lets talk about Fi kids!

Those are not my words.
Those are not your words.

 

[Thalassa]

I can give us a definition of Fi everyone should agree to:

Introverted Feeling is an internal judgement system based upon what your instincts tell you is right and wrong regardless of the needs of group dynamics.

I don't know that I like this definition, because it brings to mind those posts I've seen where people call rude and childish behavior "Fi." While we're at it we could also say that people who think they're killing their children to protect them from Satan are using Fi.

If this is REALLY Fi, this basic simple statement, it's fucking scary and I want nothing to do with it.

 

[KDude]

That seems a pretty good description to me.



I think you could take non assertive as meaning live and let live. That is how I see that aspect. Generally people see the world and others through their own eyes. So somebody thinking that way could tend to also give others that same space.

So basically everything you define as Fi doesn't encroach on others? Therefore, it's never in conflict enough to need to assert itself externally? You just see and accept that everyone has a point of view, and that's good enough for you?

I'm going to bite my tongue on this. Rather, I don't know what to think.

 

[wolfy]

No, I was reflecting on how I tend to choose my battles. There are definitely times when it is, or I am, in conflict with others over view points. It was an idea on how Fi dom could be viewed in such a way.

 

[KDude]

No, I was reflecting on how I tend to choose my battles. There are definitely times when it is, or I am, in conflict with others over view points. It was an idea on how Fi dom could be viewed in such a way.

Something like that would have the opposite effect on me. I wouldn't see them as that accepting. It just tells me they don't have any actual thoughts to send my way, and that the nice behavior is for everyone. I like it when people are cool for a more tailored, specific reason. I've known people through life who seem nice, but in the end, I can never get it out of them on why they are being that way (not that I totally resent it. It's just frustrating).

 

[wolfy]

I think for myself I am generally nice to people because I like a nice atmosphere around me. I want people to enjoy having me around and I like being entertaining and having a good time. I remember doing a test and the result said I am motivated by applause. There is an element of that but that isn't the whole story. I also like helping people out with stuff, I enjoy finding the answer to something, someone's training problem, or whatever. I don't get what you mean by a tailored, specific reason. Do you mean like how I enjoy helping people and getting them into training and things like that?

 

[Rail Tracer]

Overall, I don't think that these descriptions are as poor as some have made them out to be, but given the large set of observations, it is inevitable that some don't ring true, especially when expressed in an unaccustomed way.

If the description was done better, it would not have sounded "off."

Which makes a huge difference. You (if a bit in a extreme case) don't wear a Swastika in the Western world because it'll immediately have a connotation with Hitler and Nazi Germany. However, it is a different story when it comes to more of the Eastern countries because many still use it for religion (often depicted horizontally and not diagonally like the Nazi Germany symbol.)

 

[Quinlan]

If this is REALLY Fi, this basic simple statement, it's fucking scary and I want nothing to do with it.

All of the functions are scary in isolation.

Th N functions are delusional, the T functions are cold/inhuman, The S functions are primitive/animalistic.

It's that moderating effect of the other functions that make them seem reasonable.

 

[Thalassa]

• Is a subjective decision-making process based on personal values. Yes. Obejectively speaking, in general terms, that's what it is.
• Holds private and nonnegotiable core values deep within. Yes, and some of my values are non-negotiable. Fear me.
• Does not tolerate violations of its core beliefs. Fear me. That is, if you get to my core. Otherwise, we cool.
• Relates to people one-on-one through a fine-tuned sensitivity to the inner life of others. Yes.
• Seeks inner harmony. Always.

What's Going On?

• Is the most subjective of the four decison-making processes. Objectively speaking, yes, we all know this. Author didn't make it up!
• Develops expertise in recognizing and cultivating inner harmony. Pretty much.
• Has a focus on the individual, not the collective. Not always, but prefers to focus on individuals.
• Is the only process with a truly nonnegotiable element. I don't know about this.

When people are using their preferred Introverted Feeling:

• Their beliefs are personal and are not influenced by the established value systems of their culture. This can be true. Fi could randomly decide they prefer the values of 19th century England instead of American mainstream values.
• They may view virtually anything as innately good or innately bad, as positive or negative. Strong opinions? Yes.
• Nurturing and protecting their inner emotional life is their primary goal. This is so, so true.
• Internal harmony is more than desirable, it is critical to their well-being. YES. And it's more openly obvious with Fi doms, but is also true of aux/terts even.
• They are adept at knowing when something is wrong or right with others. Yes. This is called empathy folks.
• Bringing their inner system of values to fruition in the real world is usually not important to them. Can be observed to be true because strong Ps can be so passive and unobtrusive unless directly invaded. Even less "P" Fi users aren't big moral crusaders like Jesus, Oprah, or David Koresh usually. This can be a good thing.
• Are outwardly tolerant of other people's values as long as they don't conflict with their own. Yes.
• Are often not aware of how they affect the world around them. Especially true in younger Fi people with less life experience, or if it wasn't disciplined into them to do so.
• May cut off a relationship because their value system has been threatened, without giving any indication that anything was wrong. Yeah, especially when I was younger if someone just suddenly like WAY OVER THE TOP violated my values, I'd just stop hanging out with them. It had to be big, and something I saw as insurmountable, though.
• Reveal clues to their core values through the level of passion in their voice when they speak about what's important to them. Yep.
• They are very nonjudgmental as long as their private belief system is not violated. Outwardly, sure.
• Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved. Yep. Precious energy, must store it for myself and important things.
• Have unquestioning faith in their own values. Can be true in some cases.
• Assumes everyone's values are absolute so there is no sense in disputing them. I see this more in SFPs and very, very "P" ENFPs
• Some of their values may be unrelated to the existing cultural norms, and may conflict with them. Yes.
• Will resist data that appears to conflict with their values. In such a situation they adapt very slowly, or not at all. Yes.
  

Paraphrased descriptions of what it's like to make decisions through one's Introverted Feeling:

• I can feel when people are with me or against me. Yep.
• I use humor and sarcasm as a way of keeping my values from becoming public. I need to deflect attention from this very personal place. Always.
• I could never work for someone whose values conflict with mine. I can see this more so strong Fi types than some others.
• My personal space is very important to me. Please don't invade my physical and emotional space. YES.
• Rules have to feel right to me or I will ignore them. Yep, even if done quietly.
• What I need most from people is affirmation, acceptance, and my freedom. Sure.
• If someone affronts my values I will cut them off so quickly they will just be gone. I will probably never initiate contact with that person again. No, I tend to fight more, but they say I've got a bunch of Te. I see it in other Fi'ers though.
• I could never do something just because someone wants me to do it if it doesn't feel right to me. Yes.
• I have a sense of right and wrong that I cannot explain. Yes.
• It's very hard for me to take a stand publicly. I have to spend time trying it on to see whether it feels right. When I do take a stand, it comes out very passionately and I am not open to debating or discussing the issue. Moreso when I was younger than now, and I see this a lot in other FPs

Honestly, seriously, except for some very minor things I see all of this in myself mostly, or at least in other FPs, even INTJs or ISTJs. In fact, I feel that some Fi people have made quite a brilliant effort in displaying for others just how very true some things on this list are.