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  1. #31
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I mean, this reads to me as pure falsity: "Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved." Nothing brings out my effort? I have to have my sense of values violated before I get out of my head and off my butt?" Thankfully that's not true. My values can be a huge motivator, yes, but in a positive way, not just this negative "You have violated my values, now suffer my wrath" perspective.
    I agree....I had a similar thought in mind, as far as not simply "sitting on my butt", waiting for some violation to spur me into action.

    INFJs often try to make INFPs seem like they're lazy & unmotivated & only react in a pouty, bratty manner when they don't get their way; in a word, they see the INFP as childish, and that's how this description reads to me. I don't think Fi is all nicey-nice, but it's significantly deeper than Fe, and here it's made to sound rather immature & shallow even. As it says in Psychological Types concerning Fi: "because it usually does nothing visible, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces." Fi is a lot more conceptual or "invisible"; it's more about creating internal models of the ideal than seeking to affect people, and so there is more time spent in reflection than action concerning Feeling. However, this means action on the part of the Fi-dom can be more profound in meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I'm fine with both guides. I like this description of Fi. The usual, traditional descriptions of Fi are too fluffy for me, or too much about how we are noble, crusading Joans of Arc.

    Personally, I consider Fi to be a considerably "chillier" and more inert function than Fe. I envision Fi to be somewhere midway between Fe and Ti in terms of warmth/chilliness.
    I actually prefer the non-sugary descriptions of Fi, as I'm a "chillier" Fi-dom myself. The original description from Jung is not the prettiest picture, but it's hands down my favorite. I don't find it so one-dimensional & linear; maybe I fancy myself more complex than this, or maybe it's that Fi-doms appear much more simple on the surface. I still hold that, in comparison to the other descriptions, this one fails to actually describe the process of Fi - it mainly discusses the attitude observable from the outside. There's one side or aspect of Fi being discussed.
    Since I am looking at the other functions from the outside, that may be why they seem more acceptable to me though.

    If I was not familiar with MBTI & other function descriptions, I don't know if I'd be typing myself Fi-dom from this.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #32
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I agree.



    I don't quite understand your point here. Are you saying that my response to the description is highly typical of Fi-doms? Or that agreeing with the guide is the default position of Fi-doms?
    Well if you agree with the first paragraphs dont pay too much attention to the context of the last paragraph. It might not be you but more generally speaking to all the Fi dominants responding against the description here. And as I tried to imply, if one was to make an extensive well acclaimed book on Fi, there would still be Fi dominants complaining, using the same rethoric and points as here in this thread.

    Edit: I totally understand the subjectiveness of Fi its not that. But you need to look beyond your own perspective, especially since it is a highly personal and subjective function.

    And as a quick description, cut down to the bone, when looked simply at just this functions as an overview, this is really good.

  3. #33
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    i think it's alright as a quick guide. I think that actual values that Fi-users hold have a lot of potential to get in the way of the descriptions; that was my knee-jerk problem with it at least. for example, if things like "tolerance" or "skepticism" are strong values an Fi-user holds then there might be some trouble relating to "Does not tolerate violations of its core beliefs" or "Have unquestioning faith in their own values". while not intentional, i think there is a certain level of presumption in the values being held...or maybe presumption isn't the right word. But there are values that lie in some of these that obviously don't universally apply.

    But stepping back, yeah, I guess it's a pretty good snap-shot. I'm not inclined to think it's negative, but I wasn't surprised to see that the author isn't an Fi-user either. It's not that totally it's inaccurate for me, but more that at times it's just barely accurate because the grip on Fi isn't as strong as it would be coming from someone who actually uses/prefers it.
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  4. #34
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    This was a good Fi description.

    I'm always amused by the claim of Fi tolerance as a 'value' when that tolerance extends as far as decrying others opposing values to its own. I think Fi likes to keep its beliefs in a sequential prioritised row. Anyone with Fi in their top three functions seems to view certain opinions as sacrosanct and others in lower tiers.

  5. #35
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    Can anyone give me a good explanation why you need to be an Fi user to be able to write about Fi?

    It seems like no one is really complaining on the other descriptions this INFJ wrote. And what has this borderline conspiracy thinking of her being an Fe user have to do with her descriptions? Its such a stupid argument.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I still hold that, in comparison to the other descriptions, this one fails to actually describe the process of Fi - it mainly discusses the attitude observable from the outside. There's one side or aspect of Fi being discussed.
    Since I am looking at the other functions from the outside, that may be why they seem more acceptable to me though.
    OrangeAppled, I think you raise excellent points here ^^. I was, in fact, reading the guide with a view to it being a "view from the outside." Partly that's because I do get to see it from the outside on a daily basis, and partly because Fe was described the same way in the guide for that particular function. (Part of the context was a comparison of the Fi and Fe guides.) So in that sense, I saw the two guides as equally applicable and equally legitimate. In that context I was able to endorse the guide for Fi.

    Also, I saw both guides as descriptions of fairly "immature," harsh forms of the two functions. If the Fi guide were to describe how Fi manifests itself at my own age, the description would have to be toned down quite a lot to account for the balance that age brings. In other words I wasn't really applying the description of Fi to myself on an intensely personal level. I just compared both guides to generic forms of the functions as I understand them.

  7. #37
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Can anyone give me a good explanation why you need to be an Fi user to be able to write about Fi?

    It seems like no one is really complaining on the other descriptions this INFJ wrote. And what has this borderline conspiracy thinking of her being an Fe user have to do with her descriptions? Its such a stupid argument.
    I don't think it's that you HAVE to be an Fi user, but it seems pretty reasonable to me to assume that someone who is actually coming from the experience could have a better grip on the subject. I just think it's obvious that this person isn't as well acquainted with the function. That doesn't mean it can't be good (and for what it is, it is pretty good), just that there are things that could possibly make it better.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    This was a good Fi description.

    I'm always amused by the claim of Fi tolerance as a 'value' when that tolerance extends as far as decrying others opposing values to its own. I think Fi likes to keep its beliefs in a sequential prioritised row. Anyone with Fi in their top three functions seems to view certain opinions as sacrosanct and others in lower tiers.
    Its kind of cute when they get all worked up and help to comfirm part the description without them realizing.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Well if you agree with the first paragraphs dont pay too much attention to the context of the last paragraph. It might not be you but more generally speaking to all the Fi dominants responding against the description here.
    I thought the guide was good right from the start. So I was a little surprised when you singled out my opinion for criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    And as I tried to imply, if one was to make an extensive well acclaimed book on Fi, there would still be Fi dominants complaining, using the same rethoric and points as here in this thread.

    Edit: I totally understand the subjectiveness of Fi its not that. But you need to look beyond your own perspective, especially since it is a highly personal and subjective function.
    Us Fi-doms are comparing notes and working our way around to a consensus. We're just doing it in our own fashion. And frankly, your protestations are just creating confusion and getting in the way. Lighten up a little bit, maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    And as a quick description, cut down to the bone, when looked simply at just this functions as an overview, this is really good.
    Once again, I agree.

  10. #40
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    It's not that totally it's inaccurate for me, but more that at times it's just barely accurate
    That is my general opinion also. It's not wrong or bad, but it's just not that great either. I've seen better descriptions in less words.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Can anyone give me a good explanation why you need to be an Fi user to be able to write about Fi?
    You don't need to be a Fi-user....I've read many Fi descriptions from non Fi types that were done well.

    It seems like no one is really complaining on the other descriptions this INFJ wrote. And what has this borderline conspiracy thinking of her being an Fe user have to do with her descriptions? Its such a stupid argument.
    There has been consistent observable bias in INFJs concerning their views on Fi. It's not a stupid argument if it has basis in reality. To think that the writer's own bias may slip into these descriptions is not a conspiracy theorist attitude, it's just not being naive.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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