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  1. #21
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    I can't say I remember all too well what was said in either of them, but I will say if FJs have empathy as a gift and FPs don't then the author was high.
    Well it's not too hard to reference back to the OP.

    Under Fi -

    •Relates to people one-on-one through a fine-tuned sensitivity to the inner life of others.
    •Knowing when others are in internal distress.
    •A talent for helping people one-on-one.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #22
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Shut up! I have more empathy than you!

    *disregards cascadeco's comments*

  3. #23
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just me, but here's my personal take on it:

    Interestingly, it was simulatedworld who convinced me that all of the stuff I have done in the outer world, that I thought of as Fe motivated, is really Fi motivated. The origin point is my Fi; I hold a personal value that it's good for me to help others, and I do my best to fulfill those expectations of myself. That has translated over the years into probably thousands of hours of unpaid community service (and I don't say that to boast; it just is).

    I know I am an Fi dom and I don't question my orientation.

    But, there is absolutely nothing in this description of Fi that encompasses the manifestation of my personal values in the real world. My value says - get out in the world and DO GOOD! So I do that. I mean, this reads to me as pure falsity: "Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved." Nothing brings out my effort? I have to have my sense of values violated before I get out of my head and off my butt?" Thankfully that's not true. My values can be a huge motivator, yes, but in a positive way, not just this negative "You have violated my values, now suffer my wrath" perspective.

    According to this author, Leona Haas, every good thing I do must originate from Fe. Fi as written here is the senex - and it would make perfect sense for an INFJ to regard it as such and for me to feel that coming through.

    Regardless of all the wonderful stuff Fe does in the world, I just don't buy Fe as the sole F source of making people feel good or doing good. It's far more sophisticated in my book.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    So Fi users think the Fe guide is too good and the Fi guide is not good enough?
    I'm fine with both guides. I like this description of Fi. The usual, traditional descriptions of Fi are too fluffy for me, or too much about how we are noble, crusading Joans of Arc.

    Personally, I consider Fi to be a considerably "chillier" and more inert function than Fe. I envision Fi to be somewhere midway between Fe and Ti in terms of warmth/chilliness.

    But then that's me. Good luck finding consensus among Fi-doms on anything. That's part of our charm--we're going to be all over the map on just about any issue, including our own definition.

  5. #25
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    That's part of our charm--we're going to be all over the map on just about any issue, including our own definition.
    ^ lol, indeed.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #26
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    "Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved." Nothing brings out my effort? I have to have my sense of values violated before I get out of my head and off my butt?" Thankfully that's not true. My values can be a huge motivator, yes, but in a positive way, not just this negative "You have violated my values, now suffer my wrath" perspective.
    I definitely agree. If it weren't for my values my life would be completely different. The description is playing on the cliché that FPs are happy as long as they can have their way and are irresponsible brats that live their lives without taking others into consideration. Which is of course, complete BS. We are feisty, but our energy goes beyond our simple displays of feistiness.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    "Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved." Nothing brings out my effort? I have to have my sense of values violated before I get out of my head and off my butt?" Thankfully that's not true. My values can be a huge motivator, yes, but in a positive way, not just this negative "You have violated my values, now suffer my wrath" perspective.
    I definitely agree. If it weren't for my values my life would be completely different. The description is playing on the cliché that FPs are happy as long as they can have their way and are irresponsible brats that live their lives without taking others into consideration. Which is of course, complete BS. We are feisty, but our energy goes beyond our simple displays of feistiness.

  8. #28
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    Until a value is violated, nothing brings out their effort or energy to be involved.
    Context is everything, and there's almost no context for these one-liners. To give the passage above appropriate context, I tend to read it as "Can't be bought off." In other words, I see the passage above as a complement for the lines "Rules have to feel right to me or I will ignore them" and "I could never do something just because someone wants me to do it if it doesn't feel right to me."

    My wife and I are both INFPs, and we've been together for over 10 years. So I get to see Fi-dom from both the inside and outside. And looking at it from the outside: God help us all when my wife starts dragging her feet on something... :steam:
    Last edited by RDF; 11-10-2010 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Fixed typo

  9. #29
    He who laughs
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    *sits with hands on the keyboard waiting for jaguar to post Ti description ready to diss the Ti description as being too superficial*

    Edit: As predictable as these responses are, its kind of cute too.

    Try and read the description one more time and do it without letting your inner ideals of Fi get in the way. This is really not that bad a description as you make it sound. Plus you are putting way too much focus on the words and not the context. Try and read a little between the lines.

    Fineline I disagree with you. If one was to write a 700 page book on Fi, there would still be Fi dominants who would say the same as you.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    *sits with hands on the keyboard waiting for jaguar to post Ti description ready to diss the Ti description as being too superficial*

    Edit: As predictable as these responses are, its kind of cute too.

    Try and read the description one more time and do it without letting your inner ideals of Fi get in the way. This is really not that bad a description as you make it sound. Plus you are putting way too much focus on the words and not the context. Try and read a little between the lines.
    I agree.

    Fineline I disagree with you. If one was to write a 700 page book on Fi, there would still be Fi dominants who would say the same as you.
    I don't quite understand your point here. Are you saying that my response to the description is highly typical of Fi-doms? Or that agreeing with the guide is the default position of Fi-doms?

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