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  1. #21
    violaine
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    I'm interested! (The forum is running so slowly for me at the moment though I don't know how much I'll be able to join in if it doesn't resolve for me.)

  2. #22
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    note - if i talk about Fe in a negative manner, it's not to be an asshole, but because it's the negative sides of our functions that are often very hard to see for ourselves. i've learned so much about how i can come off as confusing, or mean, or counterproductive in a Fi way, and i don't think other Fi types could have given me that same kind of feedback as Fe types.

    my disclaimer is that i think Fe is excellent and i surround myself with Fe types IRL.

    Quote Originally Posted by violane
    Give, give, give, give, suddenly realize to your own horror that you are being taken advantage of, doorslam to protect self. Must be really confusing from an outsider's POV. Better to monitor boundaries more closely from the outset.
    haha, yeah, it is kind of confusing. i think for me it also happens that someone will give, but i don't really want what they're trying to give, and i try to accept it gracefully anyway because i appreciate their effort, but at some point i really need to ask them to stop, and then they get upset. but then probably i should also voice my personal boundaries from the outset, and that wouldn't happen.

    anyway, also, i have a Fe dom friend (tested and self-affirmed) who i suspect is a 3w2 sp/so on the enneagram, and she's really interesting in terms of how she neglects herself sometimes. it's more of a psychological neglect - she definitely takes good care of her body - if she has a physical need, like sleep, then she'll attend to it before almost anything else - and she definitely thinks of herself first a lot of the time - but in terms of how she makes commitments to people, she almost always overbooks herself, and has a hard time saying no to people she likes even if she's overwhelmed.

    it comes off as very self-sacrificing (which it is) and like she's very, very responsible (which she is), but what can happen sometimes is she'll overbook herself to the point of getting sick of whatever she's committed to, but she doesn't feel like she can get out of it, and she'll become cynical and be a stressed out mess inside, and can't wait to be done with whatever it is.

    (of course the Fi flipside self-neglect is self-absorption... both are unhealthy when there's too much of it... anyway. i think it's cool to parallel Fe and Fi just like you can parallel Fe and Te. theoretically all of the functions should be mirror images of one another...)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm not putting the positive spin on Fe here...the author is. It's sugar-coated. As for "real" flaws of Fe, what about mob mentality, for one? There is a slight indication that Fe smothers (They want to nurture people, whether or not the people need to be nurtured)....but it's glossed over.
    I'm not really seeing how Fe is sugar-coated in this description. There aren't really many negative aspects discussed in either the Fe or Fi description, but Fi-users seem inclined to see otherwise. The real flaw of Fe being used to bully is no more listed than the Fi flaw of seeking self-martyrdom.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm not really seeing how Fe is sugar-coated in this description. There aren't really many negative aspects discussed in either the Fe or Fi description, but Fi-users seem inclined to see otherwise. The real flaw of Fe being used to bully is no more listed than the Fi flaw of seeking self-martyrdom.
    I agree. Please let's not get into the whole Fi vs Fe debate again. Yes we Fe-users can be manipulative assholes. Happy now?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I agree. Please let's not get into the whole Fi vs Fe debate again. Yes we Fe-users can be manipulative assholes. Happy now?
    Nice try, superjerk! You're just saying that to seem all vulnerable so you can get your way!

  6. #26
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I agree. Please let's not get into the whole Fi vs Fe debate again. Yes we Fe-users can be manipulative assholes. Happy now?
    Way to take the high road. I can see your manipulative Fe tentacles as clear as day. Now you're just trying to make the Fi users look like hypersensitive whiners at this point that can't get out of their own way long enough to have a legitimate, probing discussion.

    Nice try, but I'm not buying it.



  7. #27
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    They want to nurture people, whether or not the people need to be nurtured.

    They tend to overlook their own emotional and physical needs.
    THAT is a huge flaw. "I know what you need better than you do." I have seen examples that are extreme to the point that it is down right repulsive and dependence fostering in the most self-serving way.

    THEN if you take point one and follow it up with point two, you have a real mess on your hands. "Look at everything I do "for you" and I don't even have time to [all the ways I emotionally and physically neglect myself]."

    The whole smothering thing and control by "caring" is a real downfall for many Fe users...but not me of course
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  8. #28
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm not really seeing how Fe is sugar-coated in this description. There aren't really many negative aspects discussed in either the Fe or Fi description, but Fi-users seem inclined to see otherwise. The real flaw of Fe being used to bully is no more listed than the Fi flaw of seeking self-martyrdom.
    And other users seem inclined to insist that the Fi-users are saying the Fi description is all negative, when that is not what is being said; it seems to me, the sensitivity is on the side of these, who are taking undue offense at the criticism from the Fi-users of a description. Besides, there is a difference between lack of outright negative commentary and markedly positive comments. Neutrality is fine, but I don't see such neutrality in the other descriptions as clearly as in the Fi one; the others are much more clearly positive, overall. There is also a distinction between negative & inaccurate, or only accurate from a very limited perspective.

    We'll see if/when the Ti description is posted how well it is received; but if there is any criticism from Ti-doms, it likely will be viewed as "rational" & justified. However, Ti is much easier to describe than Fi anyway, as Jung himself & several typology authors have noted, so there will probably be less to debate anyway.

    Anyway, carry on Fe-ers about how hard it makes your life to be so giving & selfless :rolli: .

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie
    Now you're just trying to make the Fi users look like hypersensitive whiners at this point that can't get out of their own way long enough to have a legitimate, probing discussion.
    We were having an interesting discussion in the other thread until people started whining that we dare to critique the Fi quick guide (& this quick guide, for that matter).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    And other users seem inclined to insist that the Fi-users are saying the Fi description is all negative, when that is not what is being said; it seems to me, the sensitivity is on the side of these, who are taking undue offense at the criticism from the Fi-users of a description.

    {snip}

    Anyway, carry on Fe-ers about how hard it makes your life to be so giving & selfless :rolli: .
    Perhaps it is the manner of commentary that colors Fi-users this way?

    The first one to criticize the Fe description was a Fi-user:

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You know, Fe being attributed as the source of all the F goodness in the world really trods on Fi based giving and altruism. I take exception to these overly glowy descriptions of Fe; where is the dark side? Where is the balance?
    Meanwhile, over in the Fi thread the conversation quickly went to how the Fi-users disagreed with parts of it. Not many have said whether the Fi-users were right or wrong in their criticism, I just merely commented on the fact that's how the discussion went for Fi-users in both threads.

  10. #30
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Just reading that description makes me feel exhausted. I mean, I care about people and stuff, but I don't want to actually be around them and do stuff for them all that much. Bleh. It's not personal, I just have stuff I'd rather be doing -- usually by myself.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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