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  1. #11
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You know, Fe being attributed as the source of all the F goodness in the world really trods on Fi based giving and altruism. I take exception to these overly glowy descriptions of Fe; where is the dark side? Where is the balance?
    I'm sure an NFP will start a "Fe is mean and insincere and manipulated my [ loved one] into [awful deed]" post/thread soon and balance will be restored. Patience!



  2. #12
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ LOL, perhaps Jock.

    Yes, and I posted more on that in the Fi thread. I am sure though many other Fi people won't feel as I do, and that likely comes not only from our own personal value systems, but from enneagram as well.

    I think somehow, my being an SO dom makes some kind of difference in this matter too. ?? Just speculating now. What do you think? I am sure not all Fe-doms or aux's feel like they are the poster children of love and compassion in the world either as represented here.
    I'm sure the so-dom plays a pretty big role. For myself, since learning of enneagram, I've often thought that enneagram (5w4 sp/so) does a much better job of explaining 'who am I' then mbti does. In other words, I often relate much more to fellow e5's on many things over INFJ's.

    Also I think it helps to remember that these are all-encompassing, general descriptions. Very high level. As such, I don't think most are going to relate 100% to every little piece, especially taking into account other processes that we use in conjunction with our dominant. I mean, I've never related 100% to all Fe bullet points, but I don't believe that means the points aren't valid. It's the same with INFJ profiles; there are many bullets in the profiles that don't resonate with me, and instead INTJ resonates in place of them. Seeing as everyone on this forum thinks I'm INFJ, I will then assume this is because of my 5w4 sp enneagram. Or of course any number of other non-mbti psychological things or individualized aspects that I've built up from my own peculiar set of life experiences.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #13
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    They tend to overlook their own emotional and physical needs.
    This is unhealthy. How is that for [part of] the Fe darkside?

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    This is unhealthy. How is that for [part of] the Fe darkside?
    Nah....that's just a way of saying that Fe-doms are sooo nice & selfless that they overlook their own needs. That's not a real "flaw". That's like when you go on a job interview and claim your weakness is being a perfectionist; "My one flaw is that I am too perfect". :rolli: .

    These following points just seem like Feeling to me, not exclusive to Fe or Fi:

    Compassion.
    Empathy
    A knack for appreciating and valuing others for who they are and the gifts that they possess.
    They often defend people.
    Seeks to understand what is important to others.

    I just know about people. I know what they need and want.
    I am a good listener and advisor
    My values shape how I live.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Nah....that's just a way of saying that Fe-doms are sooo nice & selfless that they overlook their own needs. That's not a real "flaw". That's like when you go on a job interview and claim your weakness is being a perfectionist; "My one flaw is that I am too perfect". :rolli: .
    I think you're putting a positive spin on what can be quite negative as far as our own health & sanity is concerned. It can be and IS a flaw, and it's definitely been a serious stressor in my own life - so it's not all for the good. Just as in the Fi thread many Fi-doms are putting negative spins on their bullet points which can be quite positive -- i.e. being non-negotiable. To be that firm and steadfast in your values? That can be quite positive and good. Why the negative spin on the Fi bullets? Why not try to look at all statements in both descriptions objectively and neutrally? There can be good and bad in each, honestly. And, after all, Fi is an *internal* process - thus it's not going to have the same sorts of bullet points as Fe would, because Fe is externally based. So in Fi, you're not going to see an emphasis on external concerns/focuses, because that's not Fi. Now, that CAN be Fi in conjunction with Ne or Se. But it's not Fi.

    Honestly Fi and Fe shouldn't be compared. Fi and Ti *could* be compared/contrasted to one another, just as Fe/Te or Ni/Si, but Fi and Fe? Eh.

    Or maybe I'm being ridiculous. Which is possible.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #16
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    This is unhealthy. How is that for [part of] the Fe darkside?
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Nah....that's just a way of saying that Fe-doms are sooo nice & selfless that they overlook their own needs. That's not a real "flaw".
    It usually works out to be a flaw, imo. It's one thing to consider and accept what your own needs are, then mindfully arrive at the more generous choice. But when someone neglects their own physical or emotional needs for the sake of <whatever group>, it's not like their needs go away just because they're being overlooked. It's not healthy to depend on group dynamics to define what one's needs should be. When there's a need that isn't accounted for with established group dynamics, the individual can end up feeling like there's something wrong with him/herself for having a need they aren't able to effectively overlook (when really, they shouldn't be trying to ignore it in the first place).
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think you're putting a positive spin on what can be quite negative as far as our own health & sanity is concerned. It can be and IS a flaw, and it's definitely been a serious stressor in my own life - so it's not all for the good. Just as in the Fi thread many Fi-doms are putting negative spins on their bullet points which can be quite positive -- i.e. being non-negotiable. To be that firm and steadfast in your values? That can be quite positive and good. Why the negative spin on the Fi bullets? Why not try to look at all statements in both descriptions objectively and neutrally? There can be good and bad in each, honestly. And, after all, Fi is an *internal* process - thus it's not going to have the same sorts of bullet points as Fe would, because Fe is externally based. So in Fi, you're not going to see an emphasis on external concerns/focuses, because that's not Fi. Now, that CAN be Fi in conjunction with Ne or Se. But it's not Fi.

    Honestly Fi and Fe shouldn't be compared. Fi and Ti *could* be compared/contrasted to one another, just as Fe/Te or Ni/Si, but Fi and Fe? Eh.

    Or maybe I'm being ridiculous. Which is possible.
    Both Fi & Fe are the same function of Feeling, to judge based on value, but they have different attitudes (I/E), so that value is determined from different sources. So in a sense, Fi is comparable to Ti in that they are both Ji, but Fe & Fi are comparable in that they both judge based on Feeling. This is why MBTI tests just seek to gauge Feeling as opposed to Fi/Fe separately (which is a problem with the tests sometimes).

    I'm not putting the positive spin on Fe here...the author is. It's sugar-coated. As for "real" flaws of Fe, what about mob mentality, for one? There is a slight indication that Fe smothers (They want to nurture people, whether or not the people need to be nurtured)....but it's glossed over.

    I don't think the Fi bullets are negative so much as limited & one-sided. The wording is less sugary, which would be okay if it was more of a synopsis & less of a single frame. Yes, Fi is very much internal, but the internal process was actually not described much at all. It was very much Fi as it appears from the outside.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #18
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    ...what can be quite negative as far as our own health & sanity is concerned. It can be and IS a flaw, and it's definitely been a serious stressor in my own life - so it's not all for the good.
    +1

    There is def a dark side to Fe but it might seem hidden as it effects the user more obviously than others. Perhaps it's secondary Fe users I'm talking about. Idk. The way I view it is that other's needs are in sharp focus, (I know what they need, even when they don't!) but my own needs are something remote to me. I don't even really think about my needs in the day to day. In the long term that leads to minimizing oneself. Very unhealthy way to live.

    Being other focused makes it hard work to maintain your own boundaries to be an equal partner in a relationship. Which is what one needs to have good relationships. I think I have set myself up in the past to not get what I really want because I am so low key about my own needs that for all intents and purposes, I don't let a partner take care of me.

    So, what I think of as having "Fe sensibilities" can make a person very vulnerable and unhappy without really knowing why. Fe users can land squarely on the codependent side of things if they aren't careful.

    Fe users need to work hard to develop good boundaries. I think those Fe users who don't have good boundaries when outwardly projecting are the ones who try to steamroll others and can smother others but Fe users who turn it inward can end up in all kinds of knots which make them a little hard to really know. There is another life going on inside. (As I think INFJs are, not exclusively but much of the time.)

    ...I also wonder if Fe is linked to the INFJ doorslam. Give, give, give, give, suddenly realize to your own horror that you are being taken advantage of, doorslam to protect self. Must be really confusing from an outsider's POV. Better to monitor boundaries more closely from the outset.

    AND! Thanks for posting Jaguar, very insightful, much to reflect upon.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    The Gifts make me cringe a little. Fe is all up in everybody else's business.

  10. #20
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    violaine Fe users need to work hard to develop good boundaries. I think those Fe users who don't have good boundaries when outwardly projecting are the ones who try to steamroll others and can smother others but Fe users who turn it inward can end up in all kinds of knots which make them a little hard to really know. There is another life going on inside. (As I think INFJs are, not exclusively but much of the time.)

    ...I also wonder if Fe is linked to the INFJ doorslam. Give, give, give, give, suddenly realize to your own horror that you are being taken advantage of, doorslam to protect self. Must be really confusing from an outsider's POV. Better to monitor boundaries more closely from the outset.

    AND! Thanks for posting Jaguar, very insightful, much to reflect upon. /
    Violaine explained it so, so well that she deserves a Typology Central medal I've been consciously thinking/working on boundaries a lot recently, mainly trying to see relationships for what they ARE and not what I'd love/need them to be. And trying to gently distance myself from people who just take a lot, but never give. I am thinking of starting a thread on defining healthy boundaries -- interested?

    Tiltyred The Gifts make me cringe a little. Fe is all up in everybody else's business.
    I wanna get all up in your business, barren crone!

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