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  1. #21
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    thanks metaphor, cascadeco, and jaguar for your answers to my questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Exactly.

    This makes sense in theory but it seems baffling that someone could have a dominant function and not be skilled in using it. It would seem particularly destructive. I wonder what kind of environmental influence would lead this to happen. One example might be parents or peers who did not value or trust the function and were highly critical or dismissive when it was used.
    well, my Ne was probably about the same in development as my Fi when i was a child, maybe even a bit less, and i suspect this was in part because of my environment. for years i was not allowed to interact with many others or to leave the house because of a medical condition, and thus i had to rely more on internal stimulation than i would have otherwise. after a bit of a learning curve in terms of how to interact with peers (to this day i feel more comfortable speaking to older adults), my Ne skill began to get more clear, and it became my preference. that said, i think your Perceiving functions can seem less tangible than your Judging functions because of their more passive role. i've swum in a sea of Ne my whole life, but it was a long time before i realized it.

  2. #22
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I think I'm Alice :horor:

    Is there a Ne "quick guide"? Because some of the Ni description is familiar "(When people are using..."), but other parts, not so much. I don't feel I have any clear awareness of the future; more like an awareness of many possible futures, & especially what is ideal.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This makes sense in theory but it seems baffling that someone could have a dominant function and not be skilled in using it. It would seem particularly destructive. I wonder what kind of environmental influence would lead this to happen. One example might be parents or peers who did not value or trust the function and were highly critical or dismissive when it was used.
    I'm not sure if this is the concept being presented, but in considering this in relation to myself, I can see how when I was younger I sort of ignored my Fi. I did not trust my Feeling decisions very much. As a consequence, I never tested as a Feeler until 2 years ago. I tended to compartmentalize my feelings, to try & remove value from the process, which is not natural for me. I think part of it was growing up in a heavy Feeler environment, but where all the Fs were FJs or very expressive EFPs. I was overwhelmed by their Feeling to the point where mine was devalued, even by myself. I imagine it can't be that uncommon for an IxFP to begin to see their own Fi as invalid if everyone around them writes it off that way. With age, I trust the wholeness of my feelings more. I don't dismiss my own value attachments. I don't know if it was inferior Te I relied on, but I was a lot more critical & agitated by inconsistencies in people when younger. I'm a lot more easy-going now than I was growing up, and a lot more trusting of my Feelings, which makes them easier to articulate, & as a consequence, less invalidated by others. However, in person, people still find me rather aloof & sometimes slightly prickly.

    I'm not entirely sure if this affected my "skill" in using Fi as an adult though. I think it just took me longer than some Fi-doms to show any Feeling on the surface.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I don't find it baffling at all. It's merely a preference and preference doesn't equal skill. I'm not going to lie to you, I laughed when I saw a bunch of INTJs in another forum asking what Ni was. If you have to ask what something is, it's highly unlikely you're skilled at it. When is the last time you heard a cardiologist ask what angioplasty is?

    For what it's worth, the INTJ who doesn't trust his Ni is a very smart young man. I anticipate a bright future for him. He's only around 20, so as he ages he may develop a trust in Ni that he hasn't had before. I have no doubt he will do great things. Crappy Ni, or not.

    By the way, a friend of mine is a retired psychologist. He doesn't have much respect for MBTI and he immediately noted how likely it is for people to answer questions as they would like themselves to be, rather than how they actually are.

    I know Sherlock tried to make a test for the processes that proved to be a real pain in the ass for him/her, but even though it was a hassle, I think it should have led some people to wonder about their processes and their strength. I may have scored a 16 on Ni, but does that really tell us about my "skill"? No. Hell, no. It was nothing but a superficial score, one that could easily change on some other "test." See my point? Only we know our personal strengths and weaknesses. And all the tests in the world will never reveal them in any meaningful way - least of all, Ni.

    I suggest people look at what I posted in that Ni Quick Reference and honestly ask themselves how much they identify with it. I think it's a more sincere way of looking at our strengths, than continuing to take misleading tests that are actually fooling people into believing the results are a measurement of their strengths, when in reality it is just the strength of their preference. Not skill.

    One last thing - we can develop a lot of strength in non-preferred FA's. If there is an environmental demand it's bound to happen, or just happen naturally as one ages. Environment matters - home, school, and work. Along with those demands will come the development of our processes - some we might not expect.

    I know I posted this link a couple months ago, but it really is worth posting again. It will get people thinking about what they may have developed along the way, and perhaps why. It will certainly get them to realize that type isn't as clear-cut as they once thought.

    http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmd-...mmd-growth.htm
    So, what you seem to be saying is that:
    - preference doesn't equal skill
    - type development is not as orderly as might be implied by proponents of the MBTI theory
    - tests are not very accurate in assessing somebody's type
    - we can have strengths in any of the FAs regardless as to type

    These things all seem right. The one point I would propose refining is the last one - related to having strengths in non-preferred functions. It seems like one could develop some skill in utilizing non-preferred functions. However, I think a strength requires both talent and competency. It would seem likely that an individual is going to have more talent in preferred functions than non-preferred functions. So, if Fe is non-preferred, you can develop some skill in using it but it is unlikely that you'll ever be as good at using it as an Fe dom.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  4. #24
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    I'm not sure if this is the concept being presented, but in considering this in relation to myself, I can see how when I was younger I sort of ignored my Fi. I did not trust my Feeling decisions very much. As a consequence, I never tested as a Feeler until 2 years ago. I tended to compartmentalize my feelings, to try & remove value from the process, which is not natural for me. I think part of it was growing up in a heavy Feeler environment, but where all the Fs were FJs or very expressive EFPs. I was overwhelmed by their Feeling to the point where mine was devalued, even by myself. I imagine it can't be that uncommon for an IxFP to begin to see their own Fi as invalid if everyone around them writes it off that way. With age, I trust the wholeness of my feelings more. I don't dismiss my own value attachments. I don't know if it was inferior Te I relied on, but I was a lot more critical & agitated by inconsistencies in people when younger. I'm a lot more easy-going now than I was growing up, and a lot more trusting of my Feelings, which makes them easier to articulate, & as a consequence, less invalidated by others. However, in person, people still find me rather aloof & sometimes slightly prickly.

    I'm not entirely sure if this affected my "skill" in using Fi as an adult though. I think it just took me longer than some Fi-doms to show any Feeling on the surface.
    If I reflect back on when I was younger, I think I had a somewhat similar experience. It's my nature to trust my intuition. Thinking seemed socially acceptable and valued by others but intuition did not. I was frustrated because I felt I had more to say and more to contribute but somehow was not able to articulate what was inside. I knew somehow that I thought differently than others and felt a bit separate or isolated because of some of these differences. It was pretty challenging to be this way - to think so differently than others and not be able to communicate. I don't think I really was able to begin to do this effectively till my later 20s or early 30s. I think - no actually, I know - the Ni was reasonably well developed at that time but I'm not sure I really understood myself very well. This does seem to be one of the primary benefits of all of this typology stuff - it helps you to move towards understanding yourself better.

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    So, if Fe is non-preferred, you can develop some skill in using it but it is unlikely that you'll ever be as good at using it as an Fe dom.
    The INTJs over at INTJf are so good at using Ni, they actually start threads asking what it is. That isn't exactly a sign of skill.

    Edit: Here's a case in point:

    An ENFJ who has not developed their Feeling side may have difficulty making good decisions, and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes. If they have not developed their Intuition, they may not be able to see possibilities, and will judge things too quickly based on established value systems or social rules, without really understanding the current situation.
    Does that sound like a Dom or Aux with automatic skill? Not at all. And that's really my point.

  6. #26
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    If a dominant function is underdeveloped how is someone going to be able to identify it as their dominant function?

    I guess you might say that it should be the most apparent function, but if someone doesn't trust it/doesn't value it, isn't it possible to be ignorant of/consciously allocate less respect for the function than it deserves?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swift sylvan View Post
    If a dominant function is underdeveloped how is someone going to be able to identify it as their dominant function?

    I guess you might say that it should be the most apparent function, but if someone doesn't trust it/doesn't value it, isn't it possible to be ignorant of/consciously allocate less respect for the function than it deserves?
    If they didn't trust or value that function, than it wouldn't be their dominant function. Dominant function is the one your brain prefers, and sometimes it's hard to realize what your dominant function is, because it's so natural and normal to you that you don't even realize you're always using it. Your auxiliary function if often easier to distinguish within yourself. So it's not always the most apparent.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    If they didn't trust or value that function, than it wouldn't be their dominant function. Dominant function is the one your brain prefers, and sometimes it's hard to realize what your dominant function is, because it's so natural and normal to you that you don't even realize you're always using it. Your auxiliary function if often easier to distinguish within yourself. So it's not always the most apparent.
    Right, just like how air is the thing we absorb every few seconds, but because we do it so naturally we easily forget that it is there until we are missing it....I guess I just need to step back outside of my normal thought process and take note of everything I take for granted to begin with.

    It is sort of hard to understand the order of the functions especially with telling the difference of those that are conscious and those that are unconscious. Also some of the functions build/work in conjunction/depend on each other to some extent it also can be difficult to isolate each individual function.

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