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  1. #11
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    As Metaphor says, it's not really Ni-Fe. My intj has said the same thing about himself, re. quick people reading. I think it boils down to taking small details/aspects and projecting outwards to other liklihoods. i.e. A simple example, you just met someone and you discover he drives a bmw. You can extrapolate a whole lot of probably accurate things about 'who he is' (values, priorities, what other things he likely spends his money on, other such stuff) based on that simple fact. Of course you can easily get carried away and be extremely wrong on some points/extrapolations, and that's just a basic example, and one that probably non-Ni-users do also, but Ni just does that, automatically and almost instantaneously, for all sorts of other little traits.
    My mother (ESFJ) does not understand the process. It totally baffles her when I answer her questions as to what I think of certain people I have just spoken to.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I KNEW YOU HAD SOMETHING COOKING UP!
    What did you expect for my 5000th post?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    What did you expect for my 5000th post?
    I thought you were going to reveal your secret identity as THE MAVERICK!



    (Which is actually a double secret identity in case one of your "Scooby Dooby Doo's" gets answered by Scooby himself)

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post

    are these just Ni, or more Ni-Fe?

    also, what does "who people are" mean, and what is it to know them well? i feel like Ne-Fi allows me a similar aptitude and i wonder how this is different.
    How Ni is expressed will vary from person to person regardless of what other FA's (function attitudes) are being expressed with it. The phrases you brought up, "who people are" and "knowing people well" are just another way of expressing the ability to read someone on a very deep level. I don't like to assign absolutes, since I think it limits potential in people. Having said that, I know that everything in the quick reference guide can easily apply to anyone who has well-developed Ni. It's not about Ni-Fe or Ni-Te, per se, or even about "position." The strength of Ni, or any FA, has nothing to do with an alleged position.

    Someone once posted that a Dominant function attitude is someone's "natural skill." No, it is not. A Dom FA can be so poorly developed, the person doesn't even trust it. Come to think of it, I recall an INTJ bringing that up. He relies heavily on Te, and is uncomfortable trusting his Ni. We all have basic use of all the Function attitudes, but type doesn't equal skill.

  5. #15
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Just one question:

    Can you clarify the statement that Ni is the only process that is independent of the conscious mind. I guess I'm failing to understand fully why this would be so. Having weak Ni myself, I find the Ni function as a whole one of the more difficult ones to grasp.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post

    Can you clarify the statement that Ni is the only process that is independent of the conscious mind.
    What you are really asking is, what is intuition?

    In`tu`i´tion

    • Any quick insight, recognized immediately without a reasoning process; a belief arrived at unconsciously.
    • The ability to have insight into a matter without conscious thought.



    You can Google: intuition and the unconscious, and have more than you could possibly want to read.

  7. #17
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    This is a very good description of many of the aspects of introverted intuition.

  8. #18
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    As Metaphor says, it's not really Ni-Fe. My intj has said the same thing about himself, re. quick people reading. I think it boils down to taking small details/aspects and projecting outwards to other liklihoods. i.e. A simple example, you just met someone and you discover he drives a bmw. You can extrapolate a whole lot of probably accurate things about 'who he is' (values, priorities, what other things he likely spends his money on, other such stuff) based on that simple fact. Of course you can easily get carried away and be extremely wrong on some points/extrapolations, and that's just a basic example, and one that probably non-Ni-users do also, but Ni just does that, automatically and almost instantaneously, for all sorts of other little traits.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    How Ni is expressed will vary from person to person regardless of what other FA's (function attitudes) are being expressed with it. The phrases you brought up, "who people are" and "knowing people well" are just another way of expressing the ability to read someone on a very deep level. I don't like to assign absolutes, since I think it limits potential in people. Having said that, I know that everything in the quick reference guide can easily apply to anyone who has well-developed Ni. It's not about Ni-Fe or Ni-Te, per se, or even about "position." The strength of Ni, or any FA, has nothing to do with an alleged position.

    Someone once posted that a Dominant function attitude is someone's "natural skill." No, it is not. A Dom FA can be so poorly developed, the person doesn't even trust it. Come to think of it, I recall an INTJ bringing that up. He relies heavily on Te, and is uncomfortable trusting his Ni. We all have basic use of all the Function attitudes, but type doesn't equal skill.
    This makes sense in theory but it seems baffling that someone could have a dominant function and not be skilled in using it. It would seem particularly destructive. I wonder what kind of environmental influence would lead this to happen. One example might be parents or peers who did not value or trust the function and were highly critical or dismissive when it was used.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  9. #19
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This makes sense in theory but it seems baffling that someone could have a dominant function and not be skilled in using it. It would seem particularly destructive. I wonder what kind of environmental influence would lead this to happen. One example might be parents or peers who did not value or trust the function and were highly critical or dismissive when it was used.
    Perhaps talent has to do with it? Talent is related to environment wherein the environment sets up the standard.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This makes sense in theory but it seems baffling that someone could have a dominant function and not be skilled in using it. It would seem particularly destructive. I wonder what kind of environmental influence would lead this to happen. One example might be parents or peers who did not value or trust the function and were highly critical or dismissive when it was used.
    I don't find it baffling at all. It's merely a preference and preference doesn't equal skill. I'm not going to lie to you, I laughed when I saw a bunch of INTJs in another forum asking what Ni was. If you have to ask what something is, it's highly unlikely you're skilled at it. When is the last time you heard a cardiologist ask what angioplasty is?

    For what it's worth, the INTJ who doesn't trust his Ni is a very smart young man. I anticipate a bright future for him. He's only around 20, so as he ages he may develop a trust in Ni that he hasn't had before. I have no doubt he will do great things. Crappy Ni, or not.

    By the way, a friend of mine is a retired psychologist. He doesn't have much respect for MBTI and he immediately noted how likely it is for people to answer questions as they would like themselves to be, rather than how they actually are.

    I know Sherlock tried to make a test for the processes that proved to be a real pain in the ass for him/her, but even though it was a hassle, I think it should have led some people to wonder about their processes and their strength. I may have scored a 16 on Ni, but does that really tell us about my "skill"? No. Hell, no. It was nothing but a superficial score, one that could easily change on some other "test." See my point? Only we know our personal strengths and weaknesses. And all the tests in the world will never reveal them in any meaningful way - least of all, Ni.

    I suggest people look at what I posted in that Ni Quick Reference and honestly ask themselves how much they identify with it. I think it's a more sincere way of looking at our strengths, than continuing to take misleading tests that are actually fooling people into believing the results are a measurement of their strengths, when in reality it is just the strength of their preference. Not skill.

    One last thing - we can develop a lot of strength in non-preferred FA's. If there is an environmental demand it's bound to happen, or just happen naturally as one ages. Environment matters - home, school, and work. Along with those demands will come the development of our processes - some we might not expect.

    I know I posted this link a couple months ago, but it really is worth posting again. It will get people thinking about what they may have developed along the way, and perhaps why. It will certainly get them to realize that type isn't as clear-cut as they once thought.

    http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmd-...mmd-growth.htm

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