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Thread: ESTJ

  1. #71
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Seems more like another leg of the same one.
    Like Mr Jekyll and Doctor Hyde, eh?

    They come when you dream.
    The best ideas.

    Did Stevenson grasp the significance of the name Hyde?
    He wrote the story immediately after the dream. With the names intact.

    Hyde = a hide. To hide.

    A hide is a skin.
    We hide our nakedness under the skytos (skin > hide).
    Ah! But this is connected with the skotos!
    Greek comes in handy.
    Skotos is the balmy benightedness.

    SKOTOS.

    European root verb SKA (to cover) is closely connected with SKU (hide).
    And what is a cover? A shadow.
    Originally SKA means a pull. To draw.

    SKA > Irish sgath, shadow. Anglo-Saxon scaed. English shadow.
    To cover is to hide.
    What is skytos to skotos?
    Jekyll was Hyde's cover.

  2. #72
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Interesting. I'm having trouble keeping up with this. It appears to be obscurity to the original thesis. Perhaps I'm not connecting well enough.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #73
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Interesting. I'm having trouble keeping up with this. It appears to be obscurity to the original thesis. Perhaps I'm not connecting well enough.
    The original thesis: subtraction.

    Sub-trahere, to draw away (pull) underneath.
    Tractus pp. of trahere = to draw.

    The meaning of SKA > shadow, originally a draw; to draw

    Obscurity > obscurus = covered over = dark = skotos
    Scurus = covered > SKU = a hide

  4. #74
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Interesting. I'm having trouble keeping up with this. It appears to be obscurity to the original thesis. Perhaps I'm not connecting well enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The original thesis: subtraction.

    Sub-trahere, to draw away (pull) underneath.
    Tractus pp. of trahere = to draw.

    The meaning of SKA > shadow, originally a draw; to draw

    Obscurity > obscurus = covered over = dark = skotos
    Scurus = covered > SKU = a hide
    Hi nocapszy,

    it's not obscurity. Wildcat's main thesis has always been about subtraction. And how that subtraction reveals the shadow self.

    The notion is not of growing into the other self, but of covering, hiding--one type hiding what's beneath. hence the things about shadow/skotos/dark selves. essentially different permutations of the same theme: one nature covers another, and that hidden nature can be derived by subtraction. (what impressed me was the use of 9 as opposed to 8.)

    perhaps it's because he's more mathematical in nature? elf's visual/verbal. so if it'd help any....

    the subtraction from the main numbers (as per the first posts) give the shadow self of the MBTI type appearing.

    the colour wheel helps explain it non verbally/mathematically: you'll see the functions that are shadows appearing as the complementary colours on the wheel, rather than adjacent colours. So INTP's shadow is ESFJ. An INTP does not 'grow' into an ESFJ. but the shadow ESFJ appears under certain situations.

    ie, when you 'subtract' from an INTP (by placing him/her in stressful situations or whatever), how that INTP would react would be as his/her opposing colour on the wheel: as an ESFJ.

    wildcat, do correct me if i'm wrong yea.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  5. #75
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    Hi nocapszy,

    it's not obscurity. Wildcat's main thesis has always been about subtraction. And how that subtraction reveals the shadow self.

    The notion is not of growing into the other self, but of covering, hiding--one type hiding what's beneath. hence the things about shadow/skotos/dark selves. essentially different permutations of the same theme: one nature covers another, and that hidden nature can be derived by subtraction. (what impressed me was the use of 9 as opposed to 8.)

    perhaps it's because he's more mathematical in nature? elf's visual/verbal. so if it'd help any....

    the subtraction from the main numbers (as per the first posts) give the shadow self of the MBTI type appearing.

    the colour wheel helps explain it non verbally/mathematically: you'll see the functions that are shadows appearing as the complementary colours on the wheel, rather than adjacent colours. So INTP's shadow is ESFJ. An INTP does not 'grow' into an ESFJ. but the shadow ESFJ appears under certain situations.

    ie, when you 'subtract' from an INTP (by placing him/her in stressful situations or whatever), how that INTP would react would be as his/her opposing colour on the wheel: as an ESFJ.

    wildcat, do correct me if i'm wrong yea.
    Exactly!
    To be visual is to see. To be verbal is to define what you see.
    Elves can do both.

    EDIT
    One hundred per cent correct.

  6. #76
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What you are doing so far is comparable to the answer brought by Deep Thought in "The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy". 42 is quite possibly the answer to life and everything but what does 42 mean? Ergo my question is what does 9 mean? What question does 36 answer? It is these questions which still bore at my brain.
    because the 9 is necessary to complete the mathematical picture.

    you can skip the numbers if you want (am sure wildcat wouldn't mind ) and understand it via words or colours. Same results. Different means, same ends.

    Start to end: It's about subtraction and the consequent derivation of the shadow self.

    i.e., always there is a schist in a person. mathematically, you can derive what lies on the opposing (synonym: shadow) side of that schist.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  7. #77
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    thanks wildcat.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  8. #78
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    thanks wildcat.

  9. #79
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    you're one cool cat.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  10. #80
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I got it after he explained it. But before he posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    The original thesis: subtraction.

    Sub-trahere, to draw away (pull) underneath.
    Tractus pp. of trahere = to draw.

    The meaning of SKA > shadow, originally a draw; to draw

    Obscurity > obscurus = covered over = dark = skotos
    Scurus = covered > SKU = a hide
    I didn't quite see what Hyde had to do with it.

    I saw how subtraction came into play.

    Subtracting is connected with hiding, which when applied to MBTI is seeing the bottom, 'hidden' half. The shadows. That's why the chart was set up the way it was. With the exact mirror over on the other side.
    we fukin won boys

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