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Thread: ESTJ

  1. #61
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Ok- 1-8 are the orders in which the functions are used by the ESTJ, If the numbers are arranged in a circle, they show which of the ESTJs functions are used by which other types as thier primary functions- something like this-



    I colored them in color wheel colors since you were talking about a color wheel
    Exactly!
    This how they go round. Thank you whatever. Jolly good work.
    Nice colours

  2. #62
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Ok- 1-8 are the orders in which the functions are used by the ESTJ, If the numbers are arranged in a circle, they show which of the ESTJs functions are used by which other types as thier primary functions- something like this-



    I colored them in color wheel colors since you were talking about a color wheel
    Is that MS paint? Wtf is that?

    Wildcat... I'm still unclear... why is it you want these to be tabled?

    I get the whole system; how it works - it's flawless, but why?

    If you don't have a reason that 's fine. I just wanna know what it is, if there is any.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #63
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    it was indeed paint- which I'm completely inept at using! that was probably obvious though I was just trying to figure out some way to depict the whole circle thing
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #64
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    Let's wait and find out!

    EDIT:



    Yep! And it may be that his interpretation is the only way to preserve opposite types in a symmetrical/parallel representation.
    The way I understand it, he looked at the common interpretation of "opposite types" and tried to represent the dichotomies by their functions only. The principal difference is that he utilized all eight functions, as opposed to MBTI's four-function preference. The result is the ordering as wildcat, Xander and lastrailway are describing which managed to get it just right.

    Okay, some more. So why are the function orders that way? I think it's because of how the types stand in relation to each other.
    The primary contrast between the ESFJ and INTP are the Sensing/Intuition and Feeling/Thinking dichotomies. EJ and IP simply define the attitudes. This also helps maintain the "opposition" principle as in wildcat's system, we see that INTP and ESFJ oppose each other not by all of their four dimensions but their main two, NT and SF respectively, so that one is indeed the other's "shadow". This is in contrast to the conventional MBTI system because MBTI implies that each will grow into the other with time -- whereas wildcat's system is more of the opinion that there will most likely remain a degree of fundamental difference between two opposite types, and the middle ground will be dictated by the EJ/IP (dominant judging, secondary perceiving) and EP/IJ (dominant perceiving, secondary judging) dichotomies instead.

    I hope this has been rather accurate, though!
    Accurate.. indeed. But of course we can check..

    From the INTP standpoint the primary numbers are in the range of 1-4

    36/4 = 9
    9 - the INTP primary number gives the ESFJ primary number

    The ESFJ primary numbers are in the range of 8-5

    The vertical set on the right are the SF numbers complemented by the NT numbers on the left vertical set:

    9-1 = 8
    9-2 = 7
    9-3 = 6
    9-4 = 5

    SF in the order

    IP 5678 EJ
    gives
    IJ 7856 EP

    8765
    7856
    6587
    5678

    7856
    8765
    5678
    6587

    9 - number gives the NT

    1234
    2143
    3412
    4321

    2143
    1234
    4321
    3412

    Quite correct.

  5. #65
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    We should find the number sets in the INTP fix (previous post)

    12345678
    61472583
    74163852
    43218765
    56781234
    25836147
    38527316
    87654321

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Is that MS paint? Wtf is that?

    Wildcat... I'm still unclear... why is it you want these to be tabled?

    I get the whole system; how it works - it's flawless, but why?

    If you don't have a reason that 's fine. I just wanna know what it is, if there is any.
    Is there a reason for a tree?
    Yes, in the sense that trees are plants and we should not be here without plants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    This still bears no observable relevance in regard to the MBTI which is what you started with. Have you lost your path or is it one of those paths that has to circumvent a mountain? If it is one of those then if you could tell me of the mountain I'd probably find your path or meet up with you around the other side a whole lot quicker.
    If your prism is composed of the primary colours and that's it.. then you do not see the mountain.
    You see, light is composed of all the colours in the prism.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 02-02-2008 at 10:50 AM.

  6. #66
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post

    Is there a reason for a tree?
    Yes, in the sense that trees are plants and we should not be here without plants.


    If your prism is composed of the primary colours and that's it.. then you do not see the mountain.
    You see, light is composed of all the colours in the prism.
    Ah!
    I get you now, man. Good idea.
    we fukin won boys

  7. #67
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    Someone other than wildcat tell me the point of all this.

  8. #68
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Someone other than wildcat tell me the point of all this.
    If you look at my last post, the bolded part -- he made a brilliant (IMO) analogy to what he's doing. His intention is to show the relationships between types in a mathematical fashion.

    In direct pertinence to the analogy, the 'prism' is only what we can see -- generally, this is just the types.

    He's using numbers to represent functions, but every number is displayed so you can actually see the 'mountain' for all that it is, rather than just the 'colors.'
    we fukin won boys

  9. #69
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Another analogy

    Color Subtraction

  10. #70
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Another analogy

    Color Subtraction
    Seems more like another leg of the same one.
    we fukin won boys

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