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  1. #1
    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    Default Ni and Ne - Defined

    The focus here is a set group of 8 types, basically all “iNtuitive” types. I hope to share some of the enlightenment I have gleaned from this process with others, and hope that we can understand the “N system” a little better.

    One of the concepts I struggled with at first was the direct correlation between the functions: why do we insist on defining Ni and Ne when they are always coupled with other factors? Instead, why do we not compare NiFe vs. NiFi, NiTe, and NiTi. So this is where I started in my mind, but naturally ended up defining them in the process anyhow. Here is what I found, refining the “definition” or “substance” of an Ni and Ne:

    The Extroverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

    1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.
    2. Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.
    3. Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.
    4. Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)
    5. Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.


    Other idiosyncrasies that Ne's share may include:
    • Easily “lost” in the vast amount of thoughts/concepts in the Ne's mind
    • Identifies multiple meanings or answers behind ideas or problems
    • Adept at indirectly affecting people or situations by suggesting/redirecting them


    The Introverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

    1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Symbolic items, be them physical objects (like a necklace or charm), an event (such as a rainbow on a particularly emotional day), or even a verbal statement (a friend tells you “I like your hair” just seconds after you were thinking about your hair).
    2. Intuitively or “magically” understands answers: may become “suddenly aware” of an answer to a problem, as it comes into focus. The problem could be one related to work or resource management, to family or interpersonal relationships, or even to an obstacle to overcome in one's own self. This may be after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but may also be sudden, without warning or cause.
    3. Enjoys catalyzing change and encouraging adaptability in others, allowing for a more “open minded” perspective in an environment. This may be between the Ni and the other, or a group of people in a given environment. The important distinction here is that an Ni enjoys this as a motivation, and believes that others truly desire the overall benefit from the change(s).
    4. Focused on fulfilling a dream or goal: this may seem to be more of a Sensory trait, however the Ni is focused on where the Se/Si is moving toward the goal. The dream, goal, or idea may change from time to time, but the Ni has a strong desire to accomplish, achieve, or aspire to reach the dream, where the Ne tends not to maintain specific goals, or their goals are much less concrete in nature/definition. These goals or dreams may guide or help the Ni in their daily actions/reactions.
    5. Accurately predicts the outcome of events, relating past and current trends of people or systems to help understand and define the end results. This may come into play when identifying the ramifications when a friend inside a network creates drama, or could be applied toward the work place to “intuitively” (and usually with a high level of accuracy) perceive the net effect(s) of whatever action is taken.


    Other idiosyncrasies that Ni's share may include:
    • Naturally or easily “transcending” situations or problems
    • Easily identifies trends
    • May “go to sleep” on a problem to wake up with an answer
    INTP - Ti > Ne > Te > Ni > Fi > Se > Fe > Si

    I am not a Strange Loop, for I will always grow and mature.

    Society is a Strange Loop, preventing us from growing and maturing.

  2. #2
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    One of the concepts I struggled with at first was the direct correlation between the functions: why do we insist on defining Ni and Ne when they are always coupled with other factors?
    Agreed; looking at them in isolation can only yield a certain level of depth and clarity.


    The Extroverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

    1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.
    2. Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.
    3. Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.
    4. Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)
    5. Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.


    Other idiosyncrasies that Ne's share may include:
    • Easily “lost” in the vast amount of thoughts/concepts in the Ne's mind
    • Identifies multiple meanings or answers behind ideas or problems
    • Adept at indirectly affecting people or situations by suggesting/redirecting them
    There's nothing here that seems off to me, at least related to my experience of Ne. A couple of things that stand out to me:

    @bold green: well, it's very true for me, I probably come up with at least one metaphor every time I post ... To me every thing is connected somehow, there's always a pattern of like to like ... and it's a way to express myself in a way that words continually limit.

    @bold purple: it's true that I would hold all products of brainstorming as equally valid, during the time of brainstorming. My philosophy is that there are no stupid ideas, and in my personal life and work experience, every idea gets a voice, every one gets considered. (Of course, some ideas will immediately pop as irrelevant or inconsequential from the get-go ... but interestingly, those crazy ideas sometimes spawn really good ones, so discounting anything at the beginning of trying to solve a problem can be counter-productive.)

    @ bold orange: Sometimes there are so many possibilities, it can be paralyzing.

    @bold blue: It's both a gift and a serious limitation at times; sometimes in my haste to solve a problem and with so many potential options on the table, I will institute each solution before thorough research in an effort to find the answer. I get so impatient, seeing so many options, some seem equally plausible, or it's a crap-shoot which will turn out successfully, that I just totally get into action mode rather than analysis.

    In my own business, I have made some crazy decisions that turned out to be money-makers, and some I lost money on ...

    I guess in the final analysis I feel glad I keep trying, I always feel an optimism to try the next thing, even if the last idea didn't work out as well as I hoped. Two steps forward, one back is always still moving forward.

    -----

    Interested to see what the Ni-ers think of your Ni summary ... to me the whole post reads as written by an Ne, so I look forward to Ni feedback too.

    EDIT: I had to change my colors to be more readable - sorry for all the edits.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Focused on fulfilling a dream or goal: this may seem to be more of a Sensory trait, however the Ni is focused on where the Se/Si is moving toward the goal. The dream, goal, or idea may change from time to time, but the Ni has a strong desire to accomplish, achieve, or aspire to reach the dream, where the Ne tends not to maintain specific goals, or their goals are much less concrete in nature/definition. These goals or dreams may guide or help the Ni in their daily actions/reactions.
    Well, yes -- you're really looking at Ni+Je vs Ne+Ji.
    Je is all about achieving the vision set by Pi (in this case, Ni).
    It wants to make Ni manifest.
    In terms of the Je tools used to implement inner vision, well, those tools are pretty much the same... hence Si and Ni can look alike if they are just being judged by the tools.

    Meanwhile, Ne does not have singular goals, it is more about exploration of the various possibilities. Specific destinations can be helpful but not required, nor particularly explicit. Ne in fact is almost willing to shift the goals in order to fit the most desirable path. And Ne IS the tools in a sense, so you can openly compare it to Se.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
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    Nice post. Although one of the things that's always confused me slightly with regard to Ni/ Ne is the difference in how they 'magically' come to an answer. They seem to come about similarly - usually 'out-of-the-blue' and possibly after some introspection on the issue.
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. C.S. Lewis

  5. #5
    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elehci View Post
    Nice post. Although one of the things that's always confused me slightly with regard to Ni/ Ne is the difference in how they 'magically' come to an answer. They seem to come about similarly - usually 'out-of-the-blue' and possibly after some introspection on the issue.
    I would say that both N's crave understanding to a higher extent than S's do, no matter their other functions. This drive is heavily subconscious as well as conscious, where as an S may maintain curiosity on a more conscious level. As our subconscious processes are very "powerful" devices, it would stand to reason that our minds generate or calculate solutions even when we are not conscious of it.
    INTP - Ti > Ne > Te > Ni > Fi > Se > Fe > Si

    I am not a Strange Loop, for I will always grow and mature.

    Society is a Strange Loop, preventing us from growing and maturing.

  6. #6
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I think for someone who prefers Ne + Ti, it's about the process or the journey. For someone who prefers Ni + Te, it's about the result or outcome.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #7
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    The Ne description made me realise how full of it I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post

    [*]Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.
    I usually end up using several metaphors to describe one thing because I often can't find the most accurate word(s) for it and no single metaphor can encompass the extent of the idea. I do the people-animal comparison as well. I know snakes, dolphins, pandas, monkeys, cats, dragons and various species of dinosaurs. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    [*]Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.
    I love epiphanies and the accompanying rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    [*]Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.
    I can't imagine not discussing about anything. Even if there is no one around, I discuss with myself. It's like playing chess against myself - confusing but interesting at the same time.

    Sometimes, it's only through discussion that I can sort out my thoughts through the maze that is my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    [*]Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)
    [*]Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.
    "What if's" dominate my thoughts so much that sometimes I don't really know which option to choose. Sometimes there are so many good possibilities that I am tempted to choose the "do nothing" option but of course I can't.

  8. #8
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    Seems like you are trying to describe Ne from a Ni viewpoint in most of the OP. Its faulty thoughts and descriptors of the Ne function. I didnt read the Ni since it seemed a waste of time.

    You need to think this through again, this is not a good definition.

    What is the basis of your definitions? Books, websites and so on...

  9. #9
    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Seems like you are trying to describe Ne from a Ni viewpoint in most of the OP. Its faulty thoughts and descriptors of the Ne function. I didnt read the Ni since it seemed a waste of time.

    You need to think this through again, this is not a good definition.

    What is the basis of your definitions? Books, websites and so on...
    I have a better idea. Use your Te to tell me *how* my definitions are inaccurate. It's called constructive critisism.
    INTP - Ti > Ne > Te > Ni > Fi > Se > Fe > Si

    I am not a Strange Loop, for I will always grow and mature.

    Society is a Strange Loop, preventing us from growing and maturing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    I would say that both N's crave understanding to a higher extent than S's do, no matter their other functions. This drive is heavily subconscious as well as conscious, where as an S may maintain curiosity on a more conscious level. As our subconscious processes are very "powerful" devices, it would stand to reason that our minds generate or calculate solutions even when we are not conscious of it.
    Is your avatar supposed to symbolize your cascading mastery over your intuitive powers, or is it just a geeky D&D fetish, or are you a KKK Arch-Magician?

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