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Ni and Ne - Defined

TacEight

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Sep 28, 2010
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The focus here is a set group of 8 types, basically all “iNtuitive” types. I hope to share some of the enlightenment I have gleaned from this process with others, and hope that we can understand the “N system” a little better.

One of the concepts I struggled with at first was the direct correlation between the functions: why do we insist on defining Ni and Ne when they are always coupled with other factors? Instead, why do we not compare NiFe vs. NiFi, NiTe, and NiTi. So this is where I started in my mind, but naturally ended up defining them in the process anyhow. Here is what I found, refining the “definition” or “substance” of an Ni and Ne:

The Extroverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

  1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.
  2. Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.
  3. Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.
  4. Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)
  5. Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.

Other idiosyncrasies that Ne's share may include:
  • Easily “lost” in the vast amount of thoughts/concepts in the Ne's mind
  • Identifies multiple meanings or answers behind ideas or problems
  • Adept at indirectly affecting people or situations by suggesting/redirecting them

The Introverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

  1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Symbolic items, be them physical objects (like a necklace or charm), an event (such as a rainbow on a particularly emotional day), or even a verbal statement (a friend tells you “I like your hair” just seconds after you were thinking about your hair).
  2. Intuitively or “magically” understands answers: may become “suddenly aware” of an answer to a problem, as it comes into focus. The problem could be one related to work or resource management, to family or interpersonal relationships, or even to an obstacle to overcome in one's own self. This may be after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but may also be sudden, without warning or cause.
  3. Enjoys catalyzing change and encouraging adaptability in others, allowing for a more “open minded” perspective in an environment. This may be between the Ni and the other, or a group of people in a given environment. The important distinction here is that an Ni enjoys this as a motivation, and believes that others truly desire the overall benefit from the change(s).
  4. Focused on fulfilling a dream or goal: this may seem to be more of a Sensory trait, however the Ni is focused on where the Se/Si is moving toward the goal. The dream, goal, or idea may change from time to time, but the Ni has a strong desire to accomplish, achieve, or aspire to reach the dream, where the Ne tends not to maintain specific goals, or their goals are much less concrete in nature/definition. These goals or dreams may guide or help the Ni in their daily actions/reactions.
  5. Accurately predicts the outcome of events, relating past and current trends of people or systems to help understand and define the end results. This may come into play when identifying the ramifications when a friend inside a network creates drama, or could be applied toward the work place to “intuitively” (and usually with a high level of accuracy) perceive the net effect(s) of whatever action is taken.

Other idiosyncrasies that Ni's share may include:
  • Naturally or easily “transcending” situations or problems
  • Easily identifies trends
  • May “go to sleep” on a problem to wake up with an answer
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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One of the concepts I struggled with at first was the direct correlation between the functions: why do we insist on defining Ni and Ne when they are always coupled with other factors?

Agreed; looking at them in isolation can only yield a certain level of depth and clarity.


The Extroverted Intuitive, separate from the other functions:

  1. Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.
  2. Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.
  3. Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.
  4. Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)
  5. Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.

Other idiosyncrasies that Ne's share may include:
  • Easily “lost” in the vast amount of thoughts/concepts in the Ne's mind
  • Identifies multiple meanings or answers behind ideas or problems
  • Adept at indirectly affecting people or situations by suggesting/redirecting them

There's nothing here that seems off to me, at least related to my experience of Ne. A couple of things that stand out to me:

@bold green: well, it's very true for me, I probably come up with at least one metaphor every time I post ... :laugh: To me every thing is connected somehow, there's always a pattern of like to like ... and it's a way to express myself in a way that words continually limit.

@bold purple: it's true that I would hold all products of brainstorming as equally valid, during the time of brainstorming. My philosophy is that there are no stupid ideas, and in my personal life and work experience, every idea gets a voice, every one gets considered. (Of course, some ideas will immediately pop as irrelevant or inconsequential from the get-go ... but interestingly, those crazy ideas sometimes spawn really good ones, so discounting anything at the beginning of trying to solve a problem can be counter-productive.)

@ bold orange: Sometimes there are so many possibilities, it can be paralyzing.

@bold blue: It's both a gift and a serious limitation at times; sometimes in my haste to solve a problem and with so many potential options on the table, I will institute each solution before thorough research in an effort to find the answer. I get so impatient, seeing so many options, some seem equally plausible, or it's a crap-shoot which will turn out successfully, that I just totally get into action mode rather than analysis.

In my own business, I have made some crazy decisions that turned out to be money-makers, and some I lost money on ...

I guess in the final analysis I feel glad I keep trying, I always feel an optimism to try the next thing, even if the last idea didn't work out as well as I hoped. Two steps forward, one back is always still moving forward.

-----

Interested to see what the Ni-ers think of your Ni summary ... to me the whole post reads as written by an Ne, so I look forward to Ni feedback too.

EDIT: I had to change my colors to be more readable - sorry for all the edits. :)
 

Totenkindly

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Focused on fulfilling a dream or goal: this may seem to be more of a Sensory trait, however the Ni is focused on where the Se/Si is moving toward the goal. The dream, goal, or idea may change from time to time, but the Ni has a strong desire to accomplish, achieve, or aspire to reach the dream, where the Ne tends not to maintain specific goals, or their goals are much less concrete in nature/definition. These goals or dreams may guide or help the Ni in their daily actions/reactions.

Well, yes -- you're really looking at Ni+Je vs Ne+Ji.
Je is all about achieving the vision set by Pi (in this case, Ni).
It wants to make Ni manifest.
In terms of the Je tools used to implement inner vision, well, those tools are pretty much the same... hence Si and Ni can look alike if they are just being judged by the tools.

Meanwhile, Ne does not have singular goals, it is more about exploration of the various possibilities. Specific destinations can be helpful but not required, nor particularly explicit. Ne in fact is almost willing to shift the goals in order to fit the most desirable path. And Ne IS the tools in a sense, so you can openly compare it to Se.
 

elehci

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Feb 16, 2010
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intj
Nice post. Although one of the things that's always confused me slightly with regard to Ni/ Ne is the difference in how they 'magically' come to an answer. They seem to come about similarly - usually 'out-of-the-blue' and possibly after some introspection on the issue.
 

TacEight

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Nice post. Although one of the things that's always confused me slightly with regard to Ni/ Ne is the difference in how they 'magically' come to an answer. They seem to come about similarly - usually 'out-of-the-blue' and possibly after some introspection on the issue.

I would say that both N's crave understanding to a higher extent than S's do, no matter their other functions. This drive is heavily subconscious as well as conscious, where as an S may maintain curiosity on a more conscious level. As our subconscious processes are very "powerful" devices, it would stand to reason that our minds generate or calculate solutions even when we are not conscious of it.
 

highlander

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I think for someone who prefers Ne + Ti, it's about the process or the journey. For someone who prefers Ni + Te, it's about the result or outcome.
 
N

NPcomplete

Guest
The Ne description made me realise how full of it I am.

[*]Encouraged by, energized by, and identifier of Metaphors, be them verbal/written metaphors, physical in nature (such as a train passing by while one is contemplating life, and they associate the train with part of their life), or metaphysical (such as relating a person's personality, spirit, heart, or body to that of an animal.

I usually end up using several metaphors to describe one thing because I often can't find the most accurate word(s) for it and no single metaphor can encompass the extent of the idea. I do the people-animal comparison as well. I know snakes, dolphins, pandas, monkeys, cats, dragons and various species of dinosaurs. :p

[*]Intuitively or “magically” understands concepts: may become “suddenly aware” of a theory, belief, or set of ideas as it all comes into perspective, often after some time of introspection or contemplation on the matter, but sometimes suddenly, without warning or cause.

I love epiphanies and the accompanying rush.

[*]Enjoys brainstorming/discussing with others, and values the results as plausible and/or objective based off of the group's reasoning. The group may be of two people: the Ne and the other, or may be with multiple persons. An important distinction is that the Ne respects the outcome as a possibility, and does not altogether disregard it when evidence or fact cannot be easily identified.

I can't imagine not discussing about anything. Even if there is no one around, I discuss with myself. It's like playing chess against myself - confusing but interesting at the same time.

Sometimes, it's only through discussion that I can sort out my thoughts through the maze that is my mind.

[*]Focused on ideas and abstract constructs: instead of maintaining a single focus—even one which changes or evolves, as the Ni tends to do—the Ne is constantly in thought of what if and how could. With so many “what-ifs” in the world and unexplained anomalies, the Ne may focus on several at a time until they (usually) come to the broader understanding that something else may be more important to spend time contemplating, or inversely that the underlying issue is larger and inclusive of the first. This is generally a life focus of the Ne, which they experience on a daily basis. (As a 3rd or 4th function this may only influence the Ne's thoughts, and not manifest itself as an “every day” stream of consciousness.)

[*]Identifies and considers countless scenarios when looking toward future outcomes, using their logical function (F/T) to invent or discover possible results. The form of “prediction” the Ne wields is primarily in the form of “shotgunning” the audience with numerous possibilities—even when the audience is only themselves. This process may help the Ne or others to identify and react potential outcomes as well, being a valuable tool in many situations.

"What if's" dominate my thoughts so much that sometimes I don't really know which option to choose. Sometimes there are so many good possibilities that I am tempted to choose the "do nothing" option but of course I can't.
 

slowriot

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Seems like you are trying to describe Ne from a Ni viewpoint in most of the OP. Its faulty thoughts and descriptors of the Ne function. I didnt read the Ni since it seemed a waste of time.

You need to think this through again, this is not a good definition.

What is the basis of your definitions? Books, websites and so on...
 

TacEight

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Seems like you are trying to describe Ne from a Ni viewpoint in most of the OP. Its faulty thoughts and descriptors of the Ne function. I didnt read the Ni since it seemed a waste of time.

You need to think this through again, this is not a good definition.

What is the basis of your definitions? Books, websites and so on...

I have a better idea. Use your Te to tell me *how* my definitions are inaccurate. It's called constructive critisism.
 
G

Ginkgo

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I would say that both N's crave understanding to a higher extent than S's do, no matter their other functions. This drive is heavily subconscious as well as conscious, where as an S may maintain curiosity on a more conscious level. As our subconscious processes are very "powerful" devices, it would stand to reason that our minds generate or calculate solutions even when we are not conscious of it.

Is your avatar supposed to symbolize your cascading mastery over your intuitive powers, or is it just a geeky D&D fetish, or are you a KKK Arch-Magician? ;)
 

disregard

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Stacie on real housewives of dc is the best example of Ne I've ever seen. She withholds her own opinions while saying what is observably true. She is the quintessential mediator. I love watching her speak.
 

TacEight

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Stacie on real housewives of dc is the best example of Ne I've ever seen. She withholds her own opinions while saying what is observably true. She is the quintessential mediator. I love watching her speak.

Don't own or watch a TV, do you have a youtube link of an example/instance you can share?
 

animenagai

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Oh so the magical understanding thing is mutual huh? I never saw it as a description in Ne, I always thought I was expressing Ni. Nice read.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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What do you have to say on the idea of Ne wanting to experiment and test it's ideas and Ni "perspective shifting" (and how that is different to Ne)?
 

TacEight

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What do you have to say on the idea of Ne wanting to experiment and test it's ideas and Ni "perspective shifting" (and how that is different to Ne)?

Well as I mentioned, my original quest was to correlate all of the functions together--not just Ne and Ni. So really, the question from my perspective would be:

"...Ne with Ti or Te wanting to experiment and test it's ideas and Ni with Ti or Te "perspective shifting"..."

Of course this can be applied to Fi and Fe as well, and probably maintains some level of influence form the Tertiary/Auxiliary Se or Si.

The intuitive functions are very ineffable, being a the most theoretical of the functions. I really don't think they can be separated from the others, but in doing the research I still found some tendencies one or the other had, so wrote the article to compare them. Still, someone with Ne Ti (E/INTPs) may think/act very similar to someone with Ne Fi (E/INFPs) due to the more "broadly natural intuitiveness" of the Fi coupled with the Ti.

Further, your question can be broken down a little differently, looking objectively: "What do you have to say on the idea of Ne wanting to [process information] versus Ni's [seeing information]? These two processes really are separate; the first, processing information, being focused on the objectivity and subjectivity (T vs. F) of the person and the second on the sensory (N vs S). So again without coupling the two with the various other functions, I would be hard pressed to answer you.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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Well as I mentioned, my original quest was to correlate all of the functions together--not just Ne and Ni. So really, the question from my perspective would be:

"...Ne with Ti or Te wanting to experiment and test it's ideas and Ni with Ti or Te "perspective shifting"..."

Of course this can be applied to Fi and Fe as well, and probably maintains some level of influence form the Tertiary/Auxiliary Se or Si.

The intuitive functions are very ineffable, being a the most theoretical of the functions. I really don't think they can be separated from the others, but in doing the research I still found some tendencies one or the other had, so wrote the article to compare them. Still, someone with Ne Ti (E/INTPs) may think/act very similar to someone with Ne Fi (E/INFPs) due to the more "broadly natural intuitiveness" of the Fi coupled with the Ti.

Further, your question can be broken down a little differently, looking objectively: "What do you have to say on the idea of Ne wanting to [process information] versus Ni's [seeing information]? These two processes really are separate; the first, processing information, being focused on the objectivity and subjectivity (T vs. F) of the person and the second on the sensory (N vs S). So again without coupling the two with the various other functions, I would be hard pressed to answer you.

I see. So those aspects of Ne and Ni are not the function in it's purest form but rather combinations of it interacting with other functions? This is why it was so difficult to write a test on them.
 

TacEight

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I see. So those aspects of Ne and Ni are not the function in it's purest form but rather combinations of it interacting with other functions? This is why it was so difficult to write a test on them.

Yes. If that's what you are trying to do, I was also--which spurred the research. I can give you the data/information I found, if you're interested. Still it seems everyone wants to know the clear cut difference between the two, but never take into account that an Ni Te will use Ni completely differently than a Ni Ti/Fe/Fi might. Or not that they'd use it differently, it would just appear different. Again, hard to define the logic here.
 

Craft

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I really don't understand why people divide their definitions and why they explain functions in this format.

You divided your definitions into 5, why? You only need one. The function itself is not a thing with many tools. It's not a random "jack of all trades", it's a whole "one" thing. There is division of 8 functions because it is a necessary division but there's no necessary 5 divisions in one function.

Also, many of the sub-definitions here are indirect causes of the functions, and not necessarily linked to the function itself. Things like "enjoying brainstorming" and "prediction" are relative.

I just think it could be more organized and definitively labeled.
 
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