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I am a bad extrovert.

duck!

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I'm interested in this topic. I'm not sure whether I should've posted this under a different thread. Please tell me if I've missed related information.

I read this piece and I recognized myself in it. I am a consummate extrovert but simultaneously (very) socially awkward. Strangers mistake me for an introvert all the time, though I don't shut up around family and friends. I also feel very claustrophobic in groups, which is a big thing. Aren't extroverts supposed to feel comfortable in groups? I'm not. I'm only comfortable engaging in small clusters or one-on-one.

But I /do/ need constant stimulation because every single one of my thought processes are external. I am always in thrall of introverts because they sprout complete, thoughtful ideas -- without outside help/stimulation -- the first time they open their mouths. I just can't imagine being that way.

At first I thought that, because I was bookish and disliked spending time with most people, I might be an introvert. Then I realized that it wasn't because I disliked people in theory -- I just hated the individuals I had to interact with. I'm also a prolific reader (I read two to three books a day) but I use books as substitutes for intelligent conversation with actual human beings. Often when I read books, I read out loud and pretend that I'm having a conversation with my reading material.

And though I do like spending time alone, I have to constantly engage myself. If I'm doing nothing and I'm alone, I feel fidgety and lonely. After many days of isolation I get very depressed and can't operate. (I become like this often because I have an introvert's DREAM job; I'm a freelance writer.)

This has resulted in my wanting friends but somehow not being able to make them. I understand that this skill is divorced from the extroversion/introversion aspect of our personalities, but I feel like I should be a better "smooth operator" because I am inclined to be like that but somehow never found my way.

So is an acceptable status quo or should I aspire to be a better extrovert? Has anybody else felt like this? Thoughts?
 

InvisibleJim

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You might be assuming that social extroversion and cognitive extraversion are the same thing. For comparison, many intraverts can be simultaneously cognitively intraverted and very chatty towards their family and close friends (See IxFJs) displaying social extroversion in that particular scenario. There are oodles of examples of people posting about this issue if you want me to dig some up let me know.
 

Moiety

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It's certainly not a desirable status quo if you are indeed an E. Listen to your hunger for interaction. Force yourself little by little by interacting with people - anyone.

I've had times where I thought - "what's the point? most people's conversations bore me to tear and dull my mind." - but I learned to cultivate some patience. One thing is very important though. No matter how cool and Jesus-like you might consider yourself to be...there will ALWAYS be people that stimulate you more than others. And if you need to force yourself to interact with people in general...it's just so you can find those people that truly stimulate you.
 

Rebe

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Even as an introvert, I need more external stimuli than I have but it is so hard to find people who stimulate you. But I have learned to reach out and not over-think it when I do come across someone interesting/seemingly similar. Sometimes just a 'I love your jacket' can get the other person talking about themselves and their life. I learned this from working as a cashier. Don't force yourself to interact with people who dull you - people who you have given a couple of chances but you just don't mesh.
 

duck!

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@InvisibleJim Thank you so much. I'd love it if you could find those threads. I tried looking, but this board is so big and I didn't know where to begin.

I looked up cognitive processes just now and I think I undersatnd -- in theory -- how being a cognitive extrovert is different (though often correlated) with being a social extrovert. But I'd never heard anyone discuss how this disconnect works in practice.

@moiety I need to cultivate that patience. I think most of it comes from my lonely life and being out of practice. (Among my few friends I'm infamous for my social blunders.) But I have come to the conclusion that I'm meant to be around people, so I am going to try as hard as I can to make new friends. It'll give me something to look forward to every day, I think.

@rebe That's a great idea. :) I should figure something similar out as well...
 

Moiety

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@moiety I need to cultivate that patience. I think most of it comes from my lonely life and being out of practice. (Among my few friends I'm infamous for my social blunders.) But I have come to the conclusion that I'm meant to be around people, so I am going to try as hard as I can to make new friends. It'll give me something to look forward to every day, I think.

Yeah. I'm a male ENFP, and it's funny because, invariably, in most group of friends I have...someone has called me antisocial (jokingly) more than once. Everyone thinks their my only group of friends and that they are the only ones who can "cope" with my personality :laugh:

But even though I like to cultivate a personal sense of modesty, I have to admit, few are the people who get to know me that don't like me after a while. That's probably the case for many ENFPs....so if nothing else, think of it like a game of probability. If your charm can get other people interested in you...continue interacting until you find those cool special ones.

One thing that has helped me, since I can at times be cynical about people is realizing...that what I don't like in other people is superficiality, so I consciously avoid it like the plague. Anything that might be a outward symbol of superficiality tells me right away I need to stay away from that person. It was an unconscious probability exercise I did in my head.

What I have come to realize though, is that parallel to that, I also did the opposite....I never considered myself a elitist, but it took me knowing someone from a very rural area, that I assumed wouldn't understand the things I like to discuss...to see that I also closed myself off to the people that while not showing outward symbols of superficiality, showed outward symbols of simplicity.

So, and I guess you are bored of hearing my personal experience by now...but, I guess what I'm saying is...don't indulge in superficiality because it will only make you miserable and bored....but give simple people a chance.



That probably was the weirdest post I've ever made...
 

KDude

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I kind of identify with that one ISFP description on typelogic.. "flowing with compliments one day, aloof the next.." So I guess that makes me a bad introvert? :| I seem to have the opposite problem as you.. And instead of seeming awkward at first, I probably seem open. Even a psychologist, who knew my introverted tendencies pretty well, said that I still am easy to talk to, or could light a room up at times (his words, not mine. I think he just noticed how I'd hit on his secretary or something. Heh. It's hardly lighting up a room.).. I think I make more than enough effort at interacting or breaking the ice, but I can't really sustain it. It's all kind of meant for others to meet me halfway, but I would prefer others pick it up from there. Ultimately, this doesn't work out a lot. So in an odd way, I'm in the same boat as you... some limbo between introversion/extroversion.
 

Queen Kat

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I'm a bad extrovert too, but I discovered a pattern with myself: I don't like social situations where I don't get the attention I want. I like being a part of groups, but only if a big part (or, let's say a majority, or, no, ALL) attention is drawn to me. If I'm in a group and I don't get attention, I feel uncomfortable and my mood is ruined for at least a couple of days. Not getting enough attention is bad for my ego. So, when I suspect a social event isn't going to get me any attention at all (like going to bars when I have to listen to OTHER people's life stories), I'd rather stay away even though I hate being alone. I always need something in arms reach that I can give a hug whenever I want. Okay, I could hug pillows, but that's not real.
 

Lady_X

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Seems pretty common for ne doms actually not sure why exactly...I'm an extravert but don't feel like one..I don't know if its my place in life atm..the thingsa I'm dealing with or what but I've seemed to run out of things to say..I feel less engaging...less desirous of conversation...not sure wtf is going on but its weird...I do love people and thrive on group interaction..its just been too long since I've had it I guess..hmm...maybe us enfps just withdraw into ourselves w/o that close knit group of friends around constantly idk...perhaps start going to some local writer groups or something..find a group that shares your interests and see where that goes.
 

Cybin

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EN types, especially ENPs, tend to gravitate more towards cerebral external stimulus than the sensory stimulus an ESP would seek. Similarly, ISPs, for the same reason, tend to have more extraverted qualities than INP. In my limited experience, most NPs that can't decide if they are E or I are probably extraverted, but understand extraversion as having to love being around tons of people all the time and partying non stop. Extraversion is also commonly channeled into things, events, hobbies, not just people. It's about thought being orientated and stimulated by outside sources and supplemented by internal rather than vice versa n
 

Thalassa

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I'm the same way. For this reason I contemplated INFx types and even ISFP.

I like to say, sit in Starbucks AROUND people, but not necessarily be talking to anybody. I might spend all day some days in my room, but I have to be chatting with people ...and I mean CHATTING IN REAL TIME, like they are responding within a reasonable period of time...or I get depressed and lonely. I was working in a studio for two days and was cut off from vent and AIM while I was there, and felt what I've heard referred to as "techno despair"...that is, the feeling that some people get if they're alone with a computer and lack human interaction or contact with nature. It's a horrible, sick feeling.

I like solitude, but when I'm in a good mood I will talk to complete strangers, say, about their dog. I do approach people. I'm very expressive, and if I'm alone doing absolutely nothing, and I'm not out getting external stimulation, I experience the horrible fidgity lonely feeling.

But yeah I've questioned my extroversion because I need quiet to think, I enjoy solitude, and I wish sometimes that certain people would shut the hell up...and usually those people are very extroverted ESxx types.
 

Coco

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Shyness is something you can come over tough, so you can work on it :p
I'm an extrovert and everyone thinks I'm an introvert too lol.
 

miss fortune

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tell me about it :dry:

I'm an ESTP who blushes when people look at me, is softspoken and I tend to panic when in crowds... I compulsively collect information from outside of myself and crave sensory stimulations though... I'm a Se dom, and therefore an extrovert, despite my non-typical extrovert tendancies :)
 

Walking Tourist

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I panic in crowds, too...
but, other than in crowds, I am OK in social situations. I am talkative and energetic and no one guesses that I am actually an introvert.
And, yes, social situations are fun. I love to be around people.
But I do crave sensory stimulation and I constantly collect information from outside of myself. I just need to re-energize from social situations on my own... by taking a walk... by being in nature... So maybe I'm a bad introvert???:headphne:


tell me about it :dry:

I'm an ESTP who blushes when people look at me, is softspoken and I tend to panic when in crowds... I compulsively collect information from outside of myself and crave sensory stimulations though... I'm a Se dom, and therefore an extrovert, despite my non-typical extrovert tendancies :)
 

duck!

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I like to say, sit in Starbucks AROUND people, but not necessarily be talking to anybody. I might spend all day some days in my room, but I have to be chatting with people ...and I mean CHATTING IN REAL TIME, like they are responding within a reasonable period of time...or I get depressed and lonely. I was working in a studio for two days and was cut off from vent and AIM while I was there, and felt what I've heard referred to as "techno despair"...that is, the feeling that some people get if they're alone with a computer and lack human interaction or contact with nature. It's a horrible, sick feeling.

I like solitude, but when I'm in a good mood I will talk to complete strangers, say, about their dog. I do approach people. I'm very expressive, and if I'm alone doing absolutely nothing, and I'm not out getting external stimulation, I experience the horrible fidgity lonely feeling.

That is exactly how I feel when I work. Sometimes I will seek people out to talk to them, but that's rare as I am afraid of being rejected. That's when I get that fidgety lonely feeling.

Moiety's advice on seeking out other people, even if I'm initially reluctant or anxious, is really sound. Today I had an excellent dinner with old friends and felt peaceful and relaxed. Tomorrow I'll be back at work again in the library on my own, and I'm going to do what I can to seek out company.

Thank you all for your responses. You've been a great help.
 

skylights

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i feel this way too. i get fidgety after a while without interaction or stimulation. i also have stimulation withdrawal if i've been around intense stimulation and all of a sudden it's over and gone. i get all weird and unpleasant feeling, almost like the weird feeling right before you cry. but, i am not super socially extroverted. i don't really like starting conversations, even though i enjoy engaging in them. it's gotten much better as my self-confidence has strengthened, but i don't think i'll ever be super extroverted.

that article wasn't terribly unfamiliar sounding, however,
But S. is convinced he's happy. I know, because he often talks about how pleased he is with life, making me wonder who he is trying to convince.

maybe he is happy. why does enjoying high levels of social stimulation make him a faker? there's enough people in this world that you can satisfy that desire pretty darn well. i suppose the point is, he's unhappy when he's not very stimulated. but if he manages to get high levels of stimulation in often, there's no reason he couldn't be a happy person. i do understand that the author is getting at underlying existential contentment, but we all have our self-doubts.

incidentally, i helped author a psychology paper on stimulation once... part of the group hypothesis was the idea that some people need much higher levels of stimulation than others to hit optimal cognitive performance. people with ADHD tend to do better with a lot of stimulation, while people on the autism spectrum tend to to better with low levels of stimulation. and it just occurred to me, that maybe introverts tend to be on the lower end of the gradient and extraverts tend to be on the higher end. like this:

246v341.png

low <----------------------------------- average -----------------------------------> high

just a thought. :shrug:

Is it because, for a social creature, loneliness is like death, and death is what we fear most of all?

...no? i mean, death is scary, but i don't not like being alone for long periods of time because it's like death. i just like interacting with other people. it made for a nice journalistic wrap-up, though.
 

InvisibleJim

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You should have shown standard deviations here, that would have been hell-o cool.

Query: Are you sure it isn't a log normal distribution; normally this is what you get when you compound a few normal distributions.
 

Queen Kat

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246v341.png

low <----------------------------------- average -----------------------------------> high

That explains why I always score high on MBTI extraversion. It's my ADD!
 

KDude

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Sometimes I *think* I need outside stimulation (in an antsy kind of way), but it seems like the internal perspective/connection still overrides it, and I realize I didn't have to go outside like I thought. I might think a party might be interesting, for example, but when I get there I realize it has nothing to offer, so I might slip away early, instead of enjoying it for what it is or seeing potential. And as I'm leaving, I might be more energetic on the thought of something I could do back home (or maybe just going to a closer friend's house).

Point being though, my own perspective constantly overrides the need for outside stimulation and determines whether I enjoy myself. So I call myself an introvert. Any typical definitions of introverts barely apply to me though. I'm not super talktative or outgoing, but I don't mind speaking up a bit, sharing my point of view, introducing myself, don't mind working on teams, or conflicting a little. I'm shy and self-absorbed, but not that much. On top of that, I don't think I'm that unusual.. seems like a lot of people fall somewhere in the middle, slightly swinging towards E or I, and not in the extreme. It makes me wonder what the basis is in all of these MBTI descriptions, where the introverted Fi doms play the meek wallflower role, and Se doms are all reenacting scenes from Animal House. It's complete bullshit. Most people aren't either of those.
 
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