User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 18 of 18

  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    What would you like a more concrete example of? I'll try out Ti.

    I think of Ti as an urge to evaluate technical worth and place value upon it. This idea of worth is a little different to utility. IT is possible for an ITP to value something of little practical value and spend their wholes lives in study of something with very little material pay out.

    A good example might be an INTP astronomer who spends most of his life tracking celestrial bodies and analysiing spectra from distant stars. His work has little practical value, but he does it anyway, quite possible with a lot of passion too. He might talk about inspiring people or those occations where blue sky (or night sky in this case) research stumbles across the solution to some practical problem. Ultimately, though he does it because he feels it has worth, and that feeling has it's roots in Ti regardless of the exact reasons he might state.

    An ISTP car enthusiast might have a great love of the engineering involved in making a formula 1 racing car, considering them to be a great example of technology, as well as rather exciting. This is despite the fact that they have poor fuel consumption, limited visiblity due to the drivers low position and a high rate of wear on the components. Of course, he might point out that these are points of concern for a road car, not a racing car, but then, what is the practical value of a racing car anyway? It doesn't have any. It is high class engineering for it's own sake, rather than because it has practical value. Again Ti is the source of this evaluation of wht has value.
    Interesting... I've been devoting myself to pointless endeavors (both technical and artistic) to the detriment of....a lot of other things. None of it is as cool as a Formula 1 race cars or tracking celestial bodies though (cars I probably could do, but it's expensive. I'll leave it at computers or guitars for now...or whatever new interest that comes to mind that isn't going to put a dent in my pocket). Where I think I'm Fi like is in ethical or social concerns...in addition to being "people oriented" (and not to say Ti can't be any of those things, but ethical matters provoke and/or weigh heavily in a way that Jim described above. And it's hard to imagine an ISTP acting as as sociable as I can be at times. Seems like I may as well stick with being ISFP. Thing is, I can see other functions play out for me in minor ways. I'm not always "in the moment". Nor do I give a shit about attributing ultimate meaning to what can only be experienced with my senses. Also, I suck at dancing. I bet there are INTJs here who enjoy it more than me. All of these little behavioral things fuck with my understanding of typology. It's a little confusing).

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    What does that have to do with why you can't give us a reason for not answering Gwen
    Okay let me ignore the belligerence and answer the question.

    Gwen has stated she is, in her mind someone who uses 'a lot' of Si by how she has discussed it. However, she won't accept that because she 'wants' to be a different type based upon the behavioural type descriptions; which I disagree with in favour of cognitive functions. As long as she wishes to hold that axiom and I a cognitive axiom then we are talking about different subjects and trying to put a square cube into a circular hole.

    I'm not there to tell someone what they are, I can only provide them the information. If they agree with all of the information and then decide to go a different way, then I'm not going to convince them otherwise. That would be disrespectful.

    No horses were harmed or otherwise abused in the typing of these paragraphs.

  3. #13
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    And if you're going to be intellectually snobby about something, don't choose function theory. Physics snobs are laughing at you.
    What if you're both?

    /headasplodes



  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Okay let me ignore the belligerence and answer the question.

    Gwen has stated she is, in her mind someone who uses 'a lot' of Si by how she has discussed it. However, she won't accept that because she 'wants' to be a different type based upon the behavioural type descriptions; which I disagree with in favour of cognitive functions. As long as she wishes to hold that axiom and I a cognitive axiom then we are talking about different subjects and trying to put a square cube into a circular hole.

    I'm not there to tell someone what they are, I can only provide them the information. If they agree with all of the information and then decide to go a different way, then I'm not going to convince them otherwise. That would be disrespectful.

    No horses were harmed or otherwise abused in the typing of these paragraphs.
    Ah, got it.

    I have to admit, I get stymied sometimes by this type of INTJ "drop all the explanation." The problem is that there's nothing really inherent in indicating which frame you're standing in. Ne is better in that it's "rocks across a river" and if you find one rock, you can work your way across if the rocks exist to do so. All you need is one rock in order to get on the trail, and then you just go from there.

    Ni seems more needle in a haystack -- you're tossing me one of Aahz and Skeeve's dimension hoppers and saying, "The answer's right there." Ha, cute. Yeah... somewhere in the millions of possible dimensions I could try. it's easier if you at least offer a road sign or destination.

    Totally get where you were as soon as you started to explain; when I read her post, I just thought... "huh, it's an ISFP who wants to be Si dom."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Part of that too perhaps is Invisible Jim holds an Fi value that would be undermined through the direct sharing of his opinion on the matter.

    I understood why he wasn't telling her, but I'm not sure why he wasn't going to try to leave a better trail for her (or other readers here) to follow.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #16
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Interesting... I've been devoting myself to pointless endeavors (both technical and artistic) to the detriment of....a lot of other things. None of it is as cool as a Formula 1 race cars or tracking celestial bodies though (cars I probably could do, but it's expensive. I'll leave it at computers or guitars for now...or whatever new interest that comes to mind that isn't going to put a dent in my pocket). Where I think I'm Fi like is in ethical or social concerns...in addition to being "people oriented" (and not to say Ti can't be any of those things, but ethical matters provoke and/or weigh heavily in a way that Jim described above. And it's hard to imagine an ISTP acting as as sociable as I can be at times. Seems like I may as well stick with being ISFP. Thing is, I can see other functions play out for me in minor ways. I'm not always "in the moment". Nor do I give a shit about attributing ultimate meaning to what can only be experienced with my senses. Also, I suck at dancing. I bet there are INTJs here who enjoy it more than me. All of these little behavioral things fuck with my understanding of typology. It's a little confusing).
    Yes, Fi and Ti can be quite similar at times. which isn't that surprising. They are both Ji processes, after all. All the IPs tend to be characterised by that strong sense of what has worth.

    I guess the most fundamental step to take in understanding the functions is to realise that they aren't about what you do but rather why you do it. I was just talking about INTP astronomers, but there could also be an ESTJ astronomer as well. It's just that his reasons for doing the job would be very different. From his point of view, it could be just a form of employment that pays the bills, ensuring that his has enough money to get the loft insulation fitted and give his kids a good education. Perhaps he joined the observatory in some other capacity and moved within the institute when the position came open. His doing very much the same thing as the INTP, but the motivations are so different.

    This is the advantage of trying to understand the types in terms of functions rather than holistic type descriptions. There are too many ways the functions can play out for a single discription to cover them all. If someone tride, it would start to look like a novel rather than an essay. This is especially true when considering people in unfamilar cultures or different periods of time. When I give such examples, I hope people recognise them for what they are - illustrative examples, not definitions. Function parables, if the you.

    There is no reason why an ISFP would be always in the moment. Their Pe and Pi are in the middle of the concious functions, which is about as balanced as these functions get. Given that the tertiary is easy to activate (the tertiary temptation wouldn't be very tempting otherwise) it will often be used more than the auxuillary, especially amongst younger people.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  7. #17
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    What would you like a more concrete example of? I'll try out Ti.

    I think of Ti as an urge to evaluate technical worth and place value upon it. This idea of worth is a little different to utility. IT is possible for an ITP to value something of little practical value and spend their wholes lives in study of something with very little material pay out.

    A good example might be an INTP astronomer who spends most of his life tracking celestrial bodies and analysiing spectra from distant stars. His work has little practical value, but he does it anyway, quite possible with a lot of passion too. He might talk about inspiring people or those occations where blue sky (or night sky in this case) research stumbles across the solution to some practical problem. Ultimately, though he does it because he feels it has worth, and that feeling has it's roots in Ti regardless of the exact reasons he might state.

    An ISTP car enthusiast might have a great love of the engineering involved in making a formula 1 racing car, considering them to be a great example of technology, as well as rather exciting. This is despite the fact that they have poor fuel consumption, limited visiblity due to the drivers low position and a high rate of wear on the components. Of course, he might point out that these are points of concern for a road car, not a racing car, but then, what is the practical value of a racing car anyway? It doesn't have any. It is high class engineering for it's own sake, rather than because it has practical value. Again Ti is the source of this evaluation of wht has value.
    Thank you. This is helpful.

    In my head last night I was trying to grasp cognition by visually picturing it as moving patterns in the brain...and yet those moving patterns do eventually result in some type of observable behavior, even though it's not necessarily tied to any particular cultural or philosophical belief, and even though the observable behavior can have different motives.

    But visualizing it helped. It's like when I was in school and I loved the text books that had colorful boxes with bullet points explaining the main concepts, and photographs or graphs illustrating ideas that had been addressed in the reading.

  8. #18
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I guess the most fundamental step to take in understanding the functions is to realise that they aren't about what you do but rather why you do it.
    Agreed with the behaviour vs motivation thing. However since we can't see inside the brain of another person, it is the behaviour that we use to try and figure out the motivation, however inaccurate it is.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-08-2011, 10:05 AM
  2. What cognitive function makes you happiest and why?
    By /DG/ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 09:24 PM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-20-2010, 09:28 AM
  4. If you need help with functions and your type...
    By Thursday in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-09-2010, 07:33 PM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-16-2009, 11:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO