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  1. #1
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Default Free Thinkers: Heart v. Head

    I believe it is the Idealists not the Rationals, which are the freest thinkers. My reason for this belief is although Rationals are very critical and easily see through hype and deception they always view everything through the "square prism of logic". And logic can prevent one from seeing illogical although probable things.

    If anyone actually wants to discuss this I will gladly provide more background on my belief. Until then I don't want to needlessly spin my wheels.

  2. #2
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    But idealists are bound by their moral obligations.

  3. #3
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    The definition of freethinker:

    One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.
    This is where your argument falls apart.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
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  4. #4
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    But idealists are bound by their moral obligations.
    Yes they are. However that does not prevent them from being free thinkers. IMO, seeing possibilities and acting on those possiblities are not the same thing.

  5. #5
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merkw View Post
    The definition of freethinker:



    This is where your argument falls apart.
    That is someone's definition of a free thinker. An although accurate is not absolute. In a roudabout way you just proved my point. Instead of sidestepping logic for a second and conjuring up a creative answer what did you do? You quoted some lame dictinary definiton of free thinker that you probably pulled from an asine Google search.

  6. #6
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Idealists live life subjectively. Rationals live it objectively. (on a continuum of course) Objectivity implies freedom.

  7. #7
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    That is someone's definition of a free thinker. An although accurate is not absolute. In a roudabout way you just proved my point. Instead of sidestepping logic for a second and conjuring up a creative answer what did you do? You quoted some lame dictinary definiton of free thinker that you probably pulled from an asine Google search.
    How precisely is it asinine? If anything is asinine here, it is you. It wasn't a google search, by the way. I love how you make entirely erroneous assumptions. You simply started this thread about free-thought. I am not much of a rule person, but if we are to accept each others' conclusions, we must accept a general definition (in this case, taken from the latest American Heritage Dictionary) for there to exist any reason whatsoever, just as in Euclidean geometry there are accepted postulates which are used to build upon.
    Without a generally accepted definition for a debate/discussion, the whole endeavor is logically superfluous. I could define a free-thinker as a semi-nonexistent cheesecake, while someone else could define a free-thinker as a purple elephant. Do you now see why I brought the definition up? Perhaps now you could cease to respond in such an asinine manner? The fact is, you started this thread about free-thinkers arguing that NFs are more like free-thinkers than NTs. I gave you the definition of a free-thinker as a rebuttal.

    QED.

    Oy vey, stultes mortales.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
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  8. #8
    heart on fire
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    Neither is totally free of its opposite. I think both kinds of freethinking is needed in this world. Neither is better in my view.

  9. #9
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Neither is totally free of its opposite. I think both kinds of freethinking is needed in this world. Neither is better in my view.
    Thank you. Now that is a fantastic conclusion.

    It took an Idealist to realize that both types can be very free thinkers. Instead of jumping to the, ahem ... logical conclusion.

  10. #10
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    It took an NT (ahem...ahem) to realize how pathetic most homo sapiens are in general.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

    "Another roof, another proof." - Paul Erdős

    INTJ (I = 100, N = 100, T = 88, J = 43)
    Solitary/Idiosyncratic, 5w6 sp/sx
    RL(x)EI (RlxE|I|)- Inquisitive Dominant
    Reserved Idealist
    ILI-Ni/INTp

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