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Free Thinkers: Heart v. Head

JustDave

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I believe it is the Idealists not the Rationals, which are the freest thinkers. My reason for this belief is although Rationals are very critical and easily see through hype and deception they always view everything through the "square prism of logic". And logic can prevent one from seeing illogical although probable things.

If anyone actually wants to discuss this I will gladly provide more background on my belief. Until then I don't want to needlessly spin my wheels.
 

MerkW

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The definition of freethinker:

One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.

This is where your argument falls apart.
 

JustDave

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But idealists are bound by their moral obligations.

Yes they are. However that does not prevent them from being free thinkers. IMO, seeing possibilities and acting on those possiblities are not the same thing.
 

JustDave

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The definition of freethinker:



This is where your argument falls apart.

That is someone's definition of a free thinker. An although accurate is not absolute. In a roudabout way you just proved my point. Instead of sidestepping logic for a second and conjuring up a creative answer what did you do? You quoted some lame dictinary definiton of free thinker that you probably pulled from an asine Google search.
 

disregard

mrs
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Idealists live life subjectively. Rationals live it objectively. (on a continuum of course) Objectivity implies freedom.
 

MerkW

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That is someone's definition of a free thinker. An although accurate is not absolute. In a roudabout way you just proved my point. Instead of sidestepping logic for a second and conjuring up a creative answer what did you do? You quoted some lame dictinary definiton of free thinker that you probably pulled from an asine Google search.

How precisely is it asinine? If anything is asinine here, it is you. It wasn't a google search, by the way. I love how you make entirely erroneous assumptions. You simply started this thread about free-thought. I am not much of a rule person, but if we are to accept each others' conclusions, we must accept a general definition (in this case, taken from the latest American Heritage Dictionary) for there to exist any reason whatsoever, just as in Euclidean geometry there are accepted postulates which are used to build upon.
Without a generally accepted definition for a debate/discussion, the whole endeavor is logically superfluous. I could define a free-thinker as a semi-nonexistent cheesecake, while someone else could define a free-thinker as a purple elephant. Do you now see why I brought the definition up? Perhaps now you could cease to respond in such an asinine manner? The fact is, you started this thread about free-thinkers arguing that NFs are more like free-thinkers than NTs. I gave you the definition of a free-thinker as a rebuttal.

QED.

Oy vey, stultes mortales.
 

heart

heart on fire
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Neither is totally free of its opposite. I think both kinds of freethinking is needed in this world. Neither is better in my view.
 

JustDave

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Neither is totally free of its opposite. I think both kinds of freethinking is needed in this world. Neither is better in my view.

Thank you. Now that is a fantastic conclusion.

It took an Idealist to realize that both types can be very free thinkers. Instead of jumping to the, ahem ... logical conclusion.
 

MerkW

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It took an NT (ahem...ahem) to realize how pathetic most homo sapiens are in general.
 

JustDave

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How precisely is it asinine? If anything is asinine here, it is you. It wasn't a google search, by the way. I love how you make entirely erroneous assumptions. You simply started this thread about free-thought. I am not much of a rule person, but if we are to accept each others' conclusions, we must accept a general definition (in this case, taken from the latest American Heritage Dictionary) for there to exist any reason whatsoever, just as in Euclidean geometry there are accepted postulates which are used to build upon.
Without a generally accepted definition for a debate/discussion, the whole endeavor is logically superfluous. I could define a free-thinker as a semi-nonexistent cheesecake, while someone else could define a free-thinker as a purple elephant. Do you now see why I brought the definition up? Perhaps now you could cease to respond in such an asinine manner? The fact is, you started this thread about free-thinkers arguing that NFs are more like free-thinkers than NTs. I gave you the definition of a free-thinker as a rebuttal.

QED.

Oy vey, stultes mortales.

Where to begin? Free as in unconstrained. You however started your argument with constraints. Now because you will ask for examples here they are: we must accept a general definition, the latest American Heritage Dictionary, etc.

Limits of any sort restrict the freedom of ones thought, as you have demonstrated here.
 

Priam

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Thank you. Now that is a fantastic conclusion.

It took an Idealist to realize that both types can be very free thinkers. Instead of jumping to the, ahem ... logical conclusion.

From Dana, INFP
Idealists live life subjectively. Rationals live it objectively. (on a continuum of course) Objectivity implies freedom.

It took a Rational to point out that selectively pulling quotes wins no arguments except in politics.
 

MerkW

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Where to begin? Free as in unconstrained. You however started your argument with constraints. Now because you will ask for examples here they are: we must accept a general definition, the latest American Heritage Dictionary, etc.

Limits of any sort restrict the freedom of ones thought, as you have demonstrated here.

False. This is all based on my mis-interpretation of what you meant by "free-thinker."
 

Priam

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Free thinking, as a concept, is too woolly to be confined in any single definition. Every type has its own breed of free-thinkers, though their methods or intent differ considerably. If I weren't drunk I would elaborate, but I'll try to come back later.
 

MerkW

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I love the fact that this thread is going in no significant direction whatsoever.
 

Priam

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Priam, it is a lot more fun to pick a side during a debate than to sit on the sidelines and poo-poo the entire ordeal.

Fun? Perhaps, but not always particularly useful. I'm not poo-pooing the concept, but rather the limited paramters we're supposed to be confined in. I believe free-thinking takes more forms than just Rational and Idealist and isn't a zero-sum exercize ("I'm free thinking, so you can't be!")
 

JustDave

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Priam, it is a lot more fun to pick a side during a debate than to sit on the sidelines and poo-poo the entire ordeal.

Whether that was an ironic statement or not it was funny. :D
 

JustDave

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Fun? Perhaps, but not always particularly useful. I'm not poo-pooing the concept, but rather the limited paramters we're supposed to be confined in. I believe free-thinking takes more forms than just Rational and Idealist and isn't a zero-sum exercize ("I'm free thinking, so you can't be!")

No, no that is a good thought. Perhaps you are correct? By creating a thread with such a strict dichotomy perhaps I am the one who's thinking is restricted.

Honestly I just wanted to explore possibilities in this thread. However right out of the gate Merk had to go for the coup de' gras. Naturally I resented this as although I always try to keep an open mind to all ideas, even the absurd ones.
 
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