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  1. #101
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Why not use a word that is not in commonly known use to avoid confusion? Here let me give you a free one: swurn. Now create a definition and then we can debate which type is the most swurn.
    Well I swurn through thoughts constantly and am possibly an INFJ so INFJs are the superior swurners???

  2. #102
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    Well I swurn through thoughts constantly and am possibly an INFJ so INFJs are the superior swurners???
    I don't just think swurn man. I live it!
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  3. #103
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't just think swurn man. I live it!
    Touche' (did i get that right?).

    It's all about the swurn. That's were I get my mojo from.

    But you are an ENTP and I an INFJ. We cannot, in this world of MBTI, both have superior levels of swurn? Or can we? This is dangerous thinking.

  4. #104
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustDave View Post
    Touche' (did i get that right?).

    It's all about the swurn. That's were I get my mojo from.

    But you are an ENTP and I an INFJ. We cannot, in this world of MBTI, both have superior levels of swurn? Or can we? This is dangerous thinking.
    What are you kidding? ENTP and INFJ are like the swurn masters! ENTP swurn comes from Ne, so it's like universal swurn, but it's also uncontrollable. Other people find ENTP swurn to be too messy. INFJ swurn comes from Ni, so it's more focused and controlled. On the other hand it doesn't always work on everything all the time. It's kinda like Green Lantern's power ring.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  5. #105
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    What are you kidding? ENTP and INFJ are like the swurn masters! ENTP swurn comes from Ne, so it's like universal swurn, but it's also uncontrollable. Other people find ENTP swurn to be too messy. INFJ swurn comes from Ni, so it's more focused and controlled. On the other hand it doesn't always work on everything all the time. It's kinda like Green Lantern's power ring.
    I couldn't agree more.

  6. #106
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I agree with Dave about the shield of logic. People by definition are subjective in their perceptions of the world. There is a lot of arrogance (with the implication that one does not know when one is wrong) in believing you area above bias or emotions and that your logic is infallible ergo you are infallible or somehow live in a land of universal truth known as Rational-ity.

    I think an NT, especially an immature or unhealthy NT could get very caught up in always being right as opposed to actually trying to see the world 'objectively' or thinking independentally. You're not really much of a free thinker if you're obsessed with appearances, especially the appearance of being correct.

    This is what I'm gleaning from what Dave said, or just superimposing my own take on it.

    On the other hand, I think NFs and NTs who are very confident can display the best examples of free LIVING, doing things to a different drummer and doing it with passion.

    I guess you could also argue that going by type SFs can also very much be free spirits with ISFP being the pinnacle example of someone completely doing their own thing and being quite content not to be part of a pack (and living up in the mountains where no one can bother them).

    I think the definition of 'free thinking' is too open and up for debate. Free living though, now there's something I feel you can judge more easily.

    When I read the question 'heart vs. head' I thought you would ask what rules you more. While by definition, I have to be typed F or T, I have always felt that don't think OR feel exclusively.

    I live in this world simultaneously with all the parts that make me up. I think with my heart and feel with my head.

  7. #107
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I agree with Dave about the shield of logic. People by definition are subjective in their perceptions of the world. There is a lot of arrogance (with the implication that one does not know when one is wrong) in believing you area above bias or emotions and that your logic is infallible ergo you are infallible or somehow live in a land of universal truth known as Rational-ity.

    I think an NT, especially an immature or unhealthy NT could get very caught up in always being right as opposed to actually trying to see the world 'objectively' or thinking independentally. You're not really much of a free thinker if you're obsessed with appearances, especially the appearance of being correct.

    This is what I'm gleaning from what Dave said, or just superimposing my own take on it.

    On the other hand, I think NFs and NTs who are very confident can display the best examples of free LIVING, doing things to a different drummer and doing it with passion.

    I guess you could also argue that going by type SFs can also very much be free spirits with ISFP being the pinnacle example of someone completely doing their own thing and being quite content not to be part of a pack (and living up in the mountains where no one can bother them).

    I think the definition of 'free thinking' is too open and up for debate. Free living though, now there's something I feel you can judge more easily.

    When I read the question 'heart vs. head' I thought you would ask what rules you more. While by definition, I have to be typed F or T, I have always felt that don't think OR feel exclusively.

    I live in this world simultaneously with all the parts that make me up. I think with my heart and feel with my head.
    That was truly a beautiful answer. I am going to try my best to post a good response.

    "The shield of logic". That's a good way to put it. The immature NTs hide behind logic as if it is inncorruptable. Yet, as you alluded to, anything born of the human is subject to some bias.

    Next, I believe many younger NTs are playing a part, an act. They are trying to be very logical as they are NTs. And its only logical that they fulfill their role in the world.

    I agree with your statement regarding the ISFPs. My brother is most likely and ISFP, and he does whatever he wants, when he wants without thought of popular opinion. Essentially, if it feels right it must be right.

    What rules you more? That could be a good thread. Perhaps you should start one. Perhaps I will steal your idea and start my own although probably not as I do have a heart ... somewhere?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I agree with Dave about the shield of logic. People by definition are subjective in their perceptions of the world. There is a lot of arrogance (with the implication that one does not know when one is wrong) in believing you area above bias or emotions and that your logic is infallible ergo you are infallible or somehow live in a land of universal truth known as Rational-ity.

    I think an NT, especially an immature or unhealthy NT could get very caught up in always being right as opposed to actually trying to see the world 'objectively' or thinking independentally. You're not really much of a free thinker if you're obsessed with appearances, especially the appearance of being correct.

    This is what I'm gleaning from what Dave said, or just superimposing my own take on it.

    On the other hand, I think NFs and NTs who are very confident can display the best examples of free LIVING, doing things to a different drummer and doing it with passion.

    I guess you could also argue that going by type SFs can also very much be free spirits with ISFP being the pinnacle example of someone completely doing their own thing and being quite content not to be part of a pack (and living up in the mountains where no one can bother them).

    I think the definition of 'free thinking' is too open and up for debate. Free living though, now there's something I feel you can judge more easily.

    When I read the question 'heart vs. head' I thought you would ask what rules you more. While by definition, I have to be typed F or T, I have always felt that don't think OR feel exclusively.

    .
    This is actually interesting as a psychological study of an Idealist mentality. The topic of discussion is whether intentionally non-rational thought constitutes a superior method of exploring reality as opposed to a strict adherence to logic. The ENFP, on the other hand, decides to approach the issue tangentially by implying that claims of rational analysis are a mere facade designed to conceal a perceived weakness.

    This is kind of what I was getting at-- CzeCze doesn't really care about answering the question; she just wants to analyze various persons' subjective experience of the issue.

    And then, of course, mollify us all with cheap platitudes.

    Whatever the merit of her points, the fact remains that "trying to see the world objectively" is essentially the definition of "logic." So, regardless of however short of perfecting this art any of us may fall, I still don't see a compelling case that the rational method is anything other than the best means available.

    So, in summary,
    "Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even if you never touch its coattails."
    --Clarence Darrow

  9. #109
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    This is kind of what I was getting at-- CzeCze doesn't really care about answering the question; she just wants to analyze various persons' subjective experience of the issue.
    I doubt you would, but just in case: Try not to make the assumption that this is true of all/most Idealists. Underdeveloped FP's often seem to be much worse than FJ's in this aspect. I think I at least try to answer a question posed to me, and wouldn't just disregard it and demand my feelings be accepted without any examination.

  10. #110
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    So, in summary,
    You know, the only thing I got when reading your response was "blah blah blah blah I hate DDR because it's fun blah blah blah blah"

    At least you didn't drag ESFP women into it this time and turn it into some argument why "reptilian" gold digging is illogical. Though your new signature is just as charming.

    And I love how you love my cheap platitudes. Your admiration of me is almost too much even for my silly cheerleading ENFP self. Seriously, stop, you're embarassing me. Or annoying me. Either way, my cheeks get red so same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I doubt you would, but just in case: Try not to make the assumption that this is true of all/most Idealists. Underdeveloped FP's often seem to be much worse than FJ's in this aspect. I think I at least try to answer a question posed to me, and wouldn't just disregard it and demand my feelings be accepted without any examination.
    Thanks for backing me up Athenian. It's good to know I fall into your book of underdeveloped FP'ness.
    Last edited by CzeCze; 01-27-2008 at 07:56 PM. Reason: A turn a phrase changes the whole post.

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