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Thread: Ni - What the hell is it?

  1. #81
    Occasional Member Array Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Ni: "The answers are in there. I just have to uncover them"
    Ne: "The answers are out there. I just have to seek them out"
    i like this.

    though don't only Judging functions technically generate information? i thought Perceiving functions... well... Perceived
    I like that explanation too.

    Perceiving functions are actually the only way to generate information. They unconsciously take data from the world and combine it with internal sources of information to generate a stream of perception that's passed to the judgment functions. Judgment functions label the information, weigh it, throw some of it out, etc. But there can be no "leaps" in judgment functions -- they decide their conclusions based deterministically on a defined metric. With no leaps, there'd be no new information. That's why there's always an interplay between judgment and perception -- perception is necessary to change scope, broaden context, etc. and judgment is needed to flesh out whatever framework perception has defined.
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  2. #82
    Filthy Apes! Array Kalach's Avatar
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    Pfft, answers.

    Meanings.





    (Having Te on tap, I'll check truths against outside criteria, thus tend really to avoid saying "answers" are found inside. Inside is for where all that shallow Te finds better substance.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  3. #83
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    I love how this thread is full of dominant Ni users posting what they think Ni is, only for Ne users to come in and tell them that they are clearly wrong. This strange irony filled my morning with joy. I think every description of Ni I have read here has a grain of truth in it.

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    Junior Member Array Quickening's Avatar
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    I agree that Ni is probably one of the harder functions to grasp if it's not one of your "top" functions.
    Perhaps part of the confusion stems from the way Ni doms, especially, tend to explain it. I know I, for one, am inclined to try and reach for that single, ultimate phrase to encapsulate the whole experience of Ni - Ni as "seeing" or "knowing" or "total vision" or "everything". Or something. Ni is a singularity so it must be expressed as a singularity. This can easily come across as self-important/overblown, not to mention rather vague...but...it *does* seem to me capture something of the experience of using/seeing with/being Ni.
    Hmm.

  5. #85
    Probably Most Brilliant Array Craft's Avatar
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    I frown at what people are showing to be a complexity. Everyone uses Ni everyday, everyone tries to see things in a different way. When you read posts, you try to look at it in ways others might read it. When you brush your teeth, you visualize your teeth from a closer point of view. When you twist your key, you think of all the mechanisms involved to start the engine or open the door. When you read a word, you think of the word's meaning instead of the word being mere combination of letters or symbols. When you look at "1", you Ni it to make it not just "1".

    Ni is Intuition that is Introverted. It is two words: Introverted Intuition.

    It is the prime opposite of the function nearest to objective(or rather 'unconnected') reality: Se. For Se, 'touch' is 'touch', 1 is 1, nothing else.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I love how this thread is full of dominant Ni users posting what they think Ni is, only for Ne users to come in and tell them that they are clearly wrong. This strange irony filled my morning with joy. I think every description of Ni I have read here has a grain of truth in it.
    where do you see that in the thread? i have gone back through all 9 pages looking for this specifically, and what i mostly see is Ne users pointing out where Ne does the same thing as well, which is clarifying when an attribute belongs to N in general, and not just Ni.

    i don't think that stating our own theories and observations about the "other side" is wrong in such a thread. you yourself have pointed things out about Ne and what ENPs do - and some Ni dom/aux have said things like Ne operating only in real time or being linear, both of which are not always true. i think it's fair for a Ne user to come in and clarify.

    at least personally, i often pick up on a degree of pretension from Ni users. "you would understand if you used it" (though really, we all use it to some degree), "it's interior leaps and bounds and can't be explained", etc. i understand that it may be very difficult to discuss - Fi, being introverted and highly subjective, is much the same - but it's frustrating to read this thread and to basically see a bunch of Ni users be like, "it is spiderwebs", "it is a singularity", etc., which in essence tells us very little, and then to assign incorrect limitations on Ne. perhaps the nature of Ni is such that you can grasp a lot out of those little statements, but for the rest of us, it really doesn't clarify much. after all, if you already know what you're talking about, it's easy to grasp one another's analogies.

    honestly, it sometimes ends up sounding like you (not you personally, i tend to find your method of communication very clear and not biased) - but sounding like some Ni users are pretentious and incorrect, and, given the communal nature of a thread, affirming one another in their incorrect pretentiousness, all of which is rather insulting. and that's when a Ne user tends to butt in and try to clarify. maybe the Ne user will be somewhat wrong, but that can be addressed through discussion. at least they're expressing things with language that others can have a chance to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Perceiving functions are actually the only way to generate information. They unconsciously take data from the world and combine it with internal sources of information to generate a stream of perception that's passed to the judgment functions. Judgment functions label the information, weigh it, throw some of it out, etc. But there can be no "leaps" in judgment functions -- they decide their conclusions based deterministically on a defined metric. With no leaps, there'd be no new information. That's why there's always an interplay between judgment and perception -- perception is necessary to change scope, broaden context, etc. and judgment is needed to flesh out whatever framework perception has defined.
    ahh. that makes sense. thanks.

  7. #87
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    Wow. I'm confused. One person says Ni is about looking at things from different perspectives and another says Ne explores all possibilities while Ni is focused on a singular vision.
    Neither intuition is singular. It's just that Ni's plurality exists in a different conceptual space that isn't readily apparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    This is something I always come back to. lol I never QUITE fully understand it. More specifically, I have problems differentiating Ni from Ne + Fi/Ti. Is Ni simply more conclusive than Ne + Ti?
    Ni is more "judgey." It filters out concepts as much as it includes alternate ideas. When one strong in Ni communicates ideas, what you hear is the end result of all the thinking. Ne is less judgey, in that Ti or Fi evaluates the ideas internally, but personality-wise, you'll hear their thoughts on the fly. That's the way to spot it, but it doesn't describe what it does or what it feels like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quickening View Post
    I agree that Ni is probably one of the harder functions to grasp if it's not one of your "top" functions.
    Perhaps part of the confusion stems from the way Ni doms, especially, tend to explain it. I know I, for one, am inclined to try and reach for that single, ultimate phrase to encapsulate the whole experience of Ni - Ni as "seeing" or "knowing" or "total vision" or "everything". Or something. Ni is a singularity so it must be expressed as a singularity. This can easily come across as self-important/overblown, not to mention rather vague...but...it *does* seem to me capture something of the experience of using/seeing with/being Ni.
    Hmm.
    It's even hard to grasp if it is your top function, because there are no words to describe it. Even other Ni-doms will say, "no no no, that's not Ni," and give their own interpretation, which is simply their personal subjective model of how Ni works for them.

    Behavior-wise, when dealing with others, the easiest way to spot Ni is the "context shifting." This concept of context shifting doesn't come straight from Jung, but it is present in the Myers-Briggs and Lenore Thomson literature, among others. It's useful to be aware of this effect both to spot it in others and to be aware of when doing it oneself if one is strongly Ni.

    The way it appears is that in the middle of a conversation, one can talk with an Ni user, and they appear to change topic, but insist that they haven't changed the topic at all when challenged. Subjectively, they're still focused on the same idea, but they come at it from different angles. These different angles can be just simple obvious different perspectives that most people can see, but often they'll be off-the-wall perspectives, or very "projecting" perspectives where they assume you must have "really" meant something else than what you said. In a highly technical discussion, it can become very obvious, because the Ni-dom is trying to figure out some difficult problem, and will be switching mental gears behind the scenes as he adopts and rejects a variety of perspectives/contexts.

    The way it feels to oneself is "just knowing." The perspective-shifting is so natural that it is an unconscious behavior. I've argued with Ni-doms who insist that there is no context shifting - and observe them context-shifting even as they argue the point. The context shifts themselves cannot be put into words, mostly because they change the very definitions of the words, or require inventing new words. Imagine being able to see in the infrared spectrum, and having to explain how you know that a car's engine is still warm without touching it - and you don't have words like "infrared" or "spectrum" to describe it. Answer: you "just know."

    However, "just knowing" is not a good means of determining whether one uses Ni. Ti and Fi and Si also "just know." It's a feature of the subjective processes. Si and Ti are a bit more "concrete" and can eventually be described in words. Ni and Fi tend to be very difficult to translate, and both "just know."

    Therefore, I would suggest regarding context-shifting as the distinguishing feature. It doesn't fully describe how Ni really works, but it has a reasonably reliable manifestation that others can observe, and one can observe in oneself.

    As for the singular vision, this is where Ni's version of multiple perspectives comes in. Ni tends to pursue a single idea, but from multiple angles/perspectives/contexts. As was noted in another thread, Ne goes "outside the box" for a solution and keeps that box around for reference, Ni goes and builds new boxes.

    As an intuitive person, it is possible to feel like one can do both of these Ne and Ni tasks, and one is generally right. One will have a preference for one or the other, which is part of one's personality, but one employs the other as needed. E.g., Ne doms will go conceptually afar to pursue an idea, but is certainly capable of drilling down Ni-wise to figure out a particularly difficult puzzle (though this can often be Ti or Fi, too, depending on the case). Similarly, Ni can delve deeply into a problem, trying to find the right box to fit, but should that fail, reach more broadly for new understanding that might help (and this can often just be Te or Fe, not just Ne).

    These are just ways of perceiving and understanding the world, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses. There isn't much to be gained by describing Jungian superpowers of cognition to make certain perspectives seem more powerful or useful. Rather, there is much to be gained from noting the weaknesses of Ni, and the weaknesses of Ne, beyond just the "head in the clouds" problem. The "better" function is the one that happens to look at a problem or situation "in the right way," and that's situation-dependent, not an intrinsic feature of the function.
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  8. #88
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Ni: "The answers are in there. I just have to uncover them"
    Ne: "The answers are out there. I just have to seek them out"
    I like this too, but I wonder what Ni doms and aux's think.

    Would providing examples be of use? Could Ni users provide some real life times where they felt Ni was engaged to provide a new insight or fresh perspective?

    I appreciate that Ni is hard to explain, much as I feel Fi is hard to explain.

    Here's a brief Ne example from my life that came to mind:

    Right now, my hubs and I are living in an apartment while his job is in another city, and we still own a house, but quite far away actually. We miss living in a house, as we're not at a point in our lives where we feel we want to be in a smaller space without our own land around us etc.

    A couple of weeks ago, we were out walking the dog, the issue above not a part of our convo that day. A woman in a car pulled up to us and asked us how we liked the apartments, what was the neighbourhood like etc. We answered her questions, and asked her if she was looking to move to the area. Her reply was that she was renting a house but found it too big for her and she was tired of doing lawn maintenance etc. She thanked us for our time and drove off.

    After she pulled away, I said to my husband, more joking than serious, "We could have sub-let our apartment to her and we could rent her house. Trade-sies!"

    To me, that's Ne. It's a tangential pull seemingly out of the air to solve a problem, or relate ideas to each other like beads on a string. It always feels like an "aha" moment to me, but haha, let me know if you think that's Ni instead!

    Can Ni users share a story or two? I would be very interested to hear them.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  9. #89
    Carerra Lu Array IZthe411's Avatar
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    That sounds more like Ne.

    Ni's more like seeing her dog in the act of pooping and you figure out World Peace.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I frown at what people are showing to be a complexity. Everyone uses Ni everyday, everyone tries to see things in a different way. When you read posts, you try to look at it in ways others might read it. When you brush your teeth, you visualize your teeth from a closer point of view. When you twist your key, you think of all the mechanisms involved to start the engine or open the door. When you read a word, you think of the word's meaning instead of the word being mere combination of letters or symbols. When you look at "1", you Ni it to make it not just "1".

    Ni is Intuition that is Introverted. It is two words: Introverted Intuition.

    It is the prime opposite of the function nearest to objective(or rather 'unconnected') reality: Se. For Se, 'touch' is 'touch', 1 is 1, nothing else.
    I agree with this. But perhaps others believe this answer to be too simple?

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