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  1. #61
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    He's actually kind of right.
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  2. #62
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    To be specific, Ne is a Pe function, which is an urge to explore and experiment with new ideas and how they play out in the real world. To an ENP reading about how to make gun powder is only half the story, producing some for yourself is the attractive bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Seriously..the more I read about Ni, the more it resembles my Fi-process...or at least part of it
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    They shouldn't overlap at all. It's true that they're both motivated by the assumptions in the internal experience, but they do very different things.
    yes, and yes -- Ne + Fi can = processes very similar to Ni. i have a personal theory that functional combinations can slide into other functions' uses. like a gradient. like engaging Ne + Fi in a certain way can help slide an ENFP close to or even right into engaging Ni, even though Ni isn't a very automatic function for us otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Seriously....using FiNe makes Ni seem rather unimpressive to me. The demi-god status of it 'round these parts makes me roll my eyes. I like the simple descriptions, as there's no pretense of mystery or superiority. They actually make sense & ring true to me because of it. Of course, I hate having my Fi oversimplified, so I can understand why Ni-doms become all poetic in describing their precious thought process. :P
    Ni is god-tier. it is The Force. how dare you compare it to lowly Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Taking unconnected data and forming theories out of them is a very Ne skill.
    seconded

  3. #63
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Ni is an unwavering singular vision - that singular vision can be awesome and correct, or it can be paranoid or even batshit insane.

    Ni is also a penetrating intuitive evaluation of the person or situation. It can be scarily spot on - like wow! - or bizarrely out of left field and ...not.

    It's a kind of creativity and imagination that springs from within - I think one of the reasons I recognize myself as an Ne user is because I collect things to make something new, like a collage. Or I see patterns in divergent things or ideas. On the other hand, I think Ni users seem to come up with things that seem PURELY IMAGINATIVE. Like sometimes I feel like Ni users are more creative than me, because I can recognize how I've collected things from other sources and pieced them together into something new. But their creativity can at least appear to be...singularly unique...because it comes from their inner intuition instead of extroverted intuition.

    At least that's my clunky interpretation.
    It is a decent interpretation. I would add that, if Ni is a singular focused vision, Ne offers a broad, multifaceted vision. Also, the "hit-or-miss" nature of Ni insights can be mitigated significantly by judicious application of one's auxiliary function. Calibrated in this way, Ni can become quite reliable. Finally, I'm not sure the collage analogy makes a clear distinction between Ne and Ni. As an Ni-dom, I make "collages", too, but usually I'm fitting random items into a framework or design I visualized beforehand. At the same time, running across an exceptional piece can cause me to reorient the entire design, even if that piece must be excluded in the end. Perhaps just different ways of making collages.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So I imagine Ni is some reverse of that....finding inspiration in some internal source, and it tends to make the individual appear more focused and composed. I think the confluence (Ni) vs. branching out (Ne) metaphor works pretty well. There is the creepy tendency of Ni people to shift perspective on an external issue and accept it in its new light, without any actual change except how it is viewed. This is disturbing sometimes and can seem delusional. Ne people will instead see many possible ways to explain something and choose that which suits their inner logic/ideals, and that can make them seem delusional.
    I have heard people comment on the highlighted. The distinction they often make is that, while Ne may be crazy and off the wall, Ni is just plain weird/creepy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    What? No; Ne is about finding hidden patterns. Taking unconnected data and forming theories out of them is a very Ne skill.
    Conversely, taking unconnected data and fitting them into an existing theory is Ni.

  4. #64

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    Ne

    Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

    Ni

    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.
    http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/in...intuiting.html

    If you regularly experience Ni, you'll know it since it sometimes hits like a 2x4. It's an intuitive understanding of any concept, a shifting of perception. Not all the blanks need to be filled in to suddenly have concepts make sense.

    Ne from observations of Ne doms and auxs, appears to me to be more linear. It needs to have all the blanks filled in before it understands the concept.

  5. #65
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Ne from observations of Ne doms and auxs [...] needs to have all the blanks filled in before it understands the concept.
    yeah, that's not true at all :/

    (note - does anyone see where the frustration is coming in here? it's like "Ne is dumber than Ni" implications running rampant. just like S and N. IT GETS OLD. your dom function isn't better than anyone else's. i realize that not all of you think this and metaphor that may not have been your intent at all. but for anyone who does think that, get over it. it's like idiotic function racism.)

    what i like best to understand a concept is a big picture. from there, it's all obvious. but if someone gives me a bunch of details it's a pain in the ass because i have to go about assembling my own big picture so then i can understand how the details fit in. it takes longer.

    i guess i see what you mean about linear in terms of more different threads and less looping around on the same subject, but Ne ends up reconnecting ideas eventually. it'll just take a little longer to make the loops Ni does, because it'll hit on a bunch of other things first. Ne can create paradigm shifts too, but mostly because you touch another theory and incorporate it, and another and incorporate it, and eventually you see things in a totally different light. it's not linear, really, but it's more of an exploratory process than Ni is. though, what Ne loses in efficiency (lack of immediate eureka), it gains in exposure to huge amounts of information.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    yeah, that's not true at all :/

    what i like best to understand a concept is a big picture. from there, it's all obvious. but if someone gives me a bunch of details it's a pain in the ass because i have to go about assembling my own big picture so then i can understand how the details fit in. it takes longer.

    i guess i see what you mean about linear in terms of more different threads and less looping around on the same subject, but Ne ends up reconnecting ideas eventually. it'll just take a little longer to make the loops Ni does, because it'll hit on a bunch of other things first.
    Ni is really crazy. Very much lightening bolts of realisation. You look at something, turn it around a bit, move a few working parts and kaboom, its use comes out of nowhere and in no particular order.

    Individuals with Ne appear to ask a lot more questions to get the fine detail so every cog is in place, has a reason for why it's in place, then the entire concept makes more sense.

  7. #67
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    yeah, that's not true at all :/

    what i like best to understand a concept is a big picture. from there, it's all obvious. but if someone gives me a bunch of details it's a pain in the ass because i have to go about assembling my own big picture so then i can understand how the details fit in. it takes longer.

    i guess i see what you mean about linear in terms of more different threads and less looping around on the same subject, but Ne ends up reconnecting ideas eventually. it'll just take a little longer to make the loops Ni does, because it'll hit on a bunch of other things first. Ne can create paradigm shifts too, but mostly because you touch another theory and incorporate it, and another and incorporate it, and eventually you see things in a totally different light. it's not linear, really, but it's more of an exploratory process than Ni is. though, what Ne loses in efficiency (lack of immediate eureka), it gains in exposure to huge amounts of information.
    Agree....I don't see Ne as linear. More like water drop rings, expanding outward, and whatever it touches forms some kind of web-like connections. It's not one foot in front of the other... The overview is needed first.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

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  8. #68
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Agree....I don't see Ne as linear. More like water drop rings, expanding outward, and whatever it touches forms some kind of web-like connections. It's not one foot in front of the other... The overview is needed first.
    No no, the whole point is that the overview ISN'T needed for Ne. Ne makes connections as soon as it has data, way before total understanding is achieved. Ni, on the other hand, can't even make sense of data unless they've molded it into their internal framework -- and at that point they'll have some really deep connections. Ne makes connections about ALL data. Ni only makes connections that are relevant to the self --- it will ignore all sorts of stuff.

  9. #69
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I actually agree with Evan here (halfway, anyway... what you're describing sounds more like Ji rather than Ni). Needing a pre-digested overview or else needing to piece the whole picture together before coming to a conclusion is more like Si + Ne interplay.
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  10. #70
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I actually agree with Evan here (halfway, anyway... what you're describing sounds more like Ji rather than Ni). Needing a pre-digested overview or else needing to piece the whole picture together before coming to a conclusion is more like Si + Ne interplay.
    It's only Ji if it's conscious. I'm saying Ni literally doesn't even see new environmental data unless it relates to the internal standard. Conversely, Ne can't stop itself from noticing new environmental data, not even to make further connections about what's already known.

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